89 replies to this topic

[micklx]

I've heard that Rodomo's 202 is the fastest naturally aspirated 202 white VB Commodore to lap Sandown. That must make it a rare beast ????

[Dr Terry]

theres the 138 engines built there was really very little differences between them all

 

 

132.5 cubic inches

 

• 1948–1953 Holden FX
• 1948–1953 Holden 48-215 (sedan)
• 1951–1953 50-2106 (coupé utility)
• 1953 48-215-257 (Business/Taxi sedan, sometimes abbreviated to 48-217)

 

138 cubic inches

 

• 1953–1956 Holden FJ
• 1956–1958 Holden FE
• 1958–1960 Holden FC
• 1960–1961 Holden FB
• 1961–1962 Holden EK
• 1962–1963 Holden EJ

 

 

Superseding the Grey motor, the Red motor was manufactured between 1963 and 1980

 

Unless you have a lc torana made in 1963 or befor then

The 132.5 Grey was fitted from 48 to FC. The 138 Grey began life in the FB.

 

Dr Terry

[yel327]

138's were also used in 1970's Holdens from memory to replace the 130 in export cars.

[Neils LX]

Yes the W427 was a HSV product, but the engines were installed by Holden, not HSV, so wouldn't that qualify?

As were most HDT motors

[Neils LX]

Crazy, i love it

[Dr Terry]

138's were also used in 1970's Holdens from memory to replace the 130 in export cars.

Yeah, but the 138 Grey & 138 Red are 2 totally different engines sharing only a similar approximate engine displacement.

 

I don't believe that the 138 Red replaced the 130, they ran concurrently for several years. The 130 was first seen in HK exports & the 138 was first seen in LC Toranas in late 1969, while the 130 was still fitted to export cars as late as 1973/74. AFAIK the 130 was sold in countries where they had heavy taxes or duties on cars over 2.2 litres in engine size.

 

Both engines were made with either type of head fitted. The 130E (HK/T/G), 130T, 2250H & 2250L (LC Torana) had adjustable rockers & larger, 186 type spark plugs. The CA/CB/CC (late LC & LJ Torana), HC/HB (LH Torana export) & QA (HQ) had fixed rockers & the smaller, 202 type spark plugs fitted.

 

Dr Terry

[yel327]

The 130 ceased at some stage and they used the 138 instead. I can't remember exactly when, after HQ I think. I'll check it out when I get a chance.
Those capacity limits still apply but I think it is now 2.5L. When I was in Malaysia in 2010 all the D4D Hiluxes were 2.5L, probably explains the 2.5L Nissans here too.

[Dave6179]

Wasn't there a 2.6ltr straight 6, VS or T or something Commodore? No not a VL. I've seen a pic of one, not sure which model... don't do Commodores (except for the wifes VN)

Edited by Dave6179, 27 September 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[torry nut]

I'd have to say the rarest Holden engine is the any of them that are no longer in the car they belonged to. 

I am sure there are plenty who's give their left nut to be reunited with their original block.

[yel327]

I did some number searching:

 

312 x second type HK GTS327 engines. These are significantly different engines to the earlier type which were the same basic engine as fitted to CKD Pontiac and Impala here by GMH. The second type GTS327 engine is basically unique. Much more than L34 though.

 

266 HT-HG GTS350 auto engines, so just higher than L34.

 

261 HQ GTS 350 manual engines, so just less than L34 (however these are not significantly different to the auto engines (at least the early autos).

 

What is rarer than the 150 x final spec LJ XU-1 engines is the final spec HG GTS350 manual engines. These were McKinnon made not Tonnawanda like the earlier HT and HG GTS350M engines. There were 450 x HG GTS 350's, of which 141 were auto, leaving 309 manuals. There were significantly more Tonnawanda style HG 350M engines in HG than McKinnon 350M. The actual number of McKinnon HG GTS350M engines is not known but the estimate is around 100. These are almost as different to the earlier engines as a final spec LJ XU-1 is to the engines prior to the 150 x final cars.

 

I also looked up the time where it appears the L22 130ci red 6 was replaced by the LD6 138HC in exports. The HJ features manual is amended in April 1975 to show the 138 instead of the 130 for export HJ's to NZ, Thailand and also in another power train combo chart for "export excluding Malaysia, NZ, Thailand and SA", so maybe that means Indonesia, Fiji, Hawaii etc (wherever else HJ went to). So this would appear to mean the QA prefixed 130 that was around for export in HQ was in HJ for a while as well.

[Dr Terry]

Wasn't there a 2.6ltr straight 6, VS or T or something Commodore? No not a VL. I've seen a pic of one, not sure which model... don't do Commodores (except for the wifes VN)

There was the Opel 2.6 'Dual Ram' 2.6 litre straight 6 in VP/VR exports but I'm sure there would have been plenty of those.

 

Dr Terry

[crabba67]

maybe L23 JM 202 L export

[yel327]

JM is the same engine as a HQ-HJ L23 QM, plenty of those made.

 

I saw one of those 2.6L dual ram cars in Langkawi, an island off Malaysia a few hours boat ride sourth of Phuket. It was badged as an Opel Calais. It was basically a VS sedan with a VS Caprice nose and the 2.6L dual ram engine with a 4L30E transmission.

[Dave6179]

I'd have to say the rarest Holden engine is the any of them that are no longer in the car they belonged to. 

I am sure there are plenty who's give their left nut to be reunited with their original block.

I still have the original 173 that the factory fitted. Not in the car of course, and I can't really see me putting it back in. But I have it!

There was the Opel 2.6 'Dual Ram' 2.6 litre straight 6 in VP/VR exports but I'm sure there would have been plenty of those.

 

Dr Terry

Yeh thats the bugger. I'd never heard of it, but there was one for sale on TradeMe.

[Dr Terry]

I still think that some of the odd low comp versions Holden's regular engines would be quite rare. If we're talking Holden bodies we can't count Bedfords with Holden V8s in them, so we will just count Holdens & Toranas etc. 

 

I doubt most guys here on the forum would have never seen a lo-comp 138,186, 202 or 253. You would count those as rare, but what about the lo-comp versions of the Torana 1300 4-cyl motors, option number L59. My understanding is that the 4-cyl engines came in fully assembled from Vauxhall UK, but they had no lo-comp versions available. If an Aussie buyer ordered an L59, GM-H removed the head of a regular (L60) 1300 & simply fitted 2 head gaskets &  then re-jigged the carby & dissy slightly. Hey presto, a lo-comp motor is born !

 

My guess is that due to the labour intensive nature of this conversion, the number of L59s actually fitted could be as few as a couple of dozen, but we may never know the real number. The 'normal' 1300 wasn't exactly a huge seller in any case.

 

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

JM is the same engine as a HQ-HJ L23 QM, plenty of those made.

We probably need to define 'same engine', or how different they have to be to be counted separately, e.g. the 73 XU1 engine or the late HG 350. These don't differ radically from their siblings.

The engines fitted to late LC & then LJ engines (JL/JM etc.) were basically just HQ engines with different sump & oil pick-up, which is really all the late HG (GD/GE/GM/GL) engines are. Does a different sump & pick-up make it a different engine, well to GM-H it does, otherwise it would've had the same engine number prefix. The same goes for most Torana 6 & V8 engines, most were the same as those fitted to the bigger Holdens but with minor changes. How different is an LH 202 to an HJ 202 ? Even the sump & carby are the same.

Having said that, the JM engine on its own would be very rare.

Dr Terry.

[yel327]

We probably need to define 'same engine', or how different they have to be to be counted separately, e.g. the 73 XU1 engine or the late HG 350. These don't differ radically from their siblings.

The engines fitted to late LC & then LJ engines (JL/JM etc.) were basically just HQ engines with different sump & oil pick-up, which is really all the late HG (GD/GE/GM/GL) engines are. Does a different sump & pick-up make it a different engine, well to GM-H it does, otherwise it would've had the same engine number prefix. The same goes for most Torana 6 & V8 engines, most were the same as those fitted to the bigger Holdens but with minor changes. How different is an LH 202 to an HJ 202 ? Even the sump & carby are the same.

Having said that, the JM engine on its own would be very rare.

Dr Terry.

 

Very different things in my opinion Terry. Yes the JM and the QM and GM have a different sump to each other but they are the same engine, same hp etc. Some of the external hang ons might differ slightly but the engine itself is the same. Final spec LJ XU-1 is a very different engine internally, as is the final spec HG GTS350M engine (it isn't even built in the same country) - these have very different performance characeristics to their predecessor. I'd roughly equate the HG 350 difference to the US and Aussie made Clevelands in Falcons.

 

I agree with you on some of the low comp engines, especially the later ones once standard fuel was very limited. A WM or VM comp blue 3.3 would be almost impossible to find. If you are going for prefixes an XZE or XZM would be all but non-existant. I reckon a low comp 138 would be very few and far between as you state, but a low comp 173 is a pretty common thing as these were standard fitment to CF Bedfords (FE prefix) with Holden engines for the early years of red motors being in Bedfords plus there were plenty of them in HQ commercials. I don't think i've seen too many 2600L or 186L engines either although they should be reasonably common.

[Dr Terry]

Yes, I think that the 149/161/173 lo-comp motors would be much more common that 186/202/253 lo-comp motors.  I have not seen any of these latter 3 in the flesh. Govt. & fleet buyers usually opted for the smaller motors, so why would they even consider a 253 V8 lo-comp.

 

I don't think that the VM/WM lo-comp Blue motor ever reached production. It doesn't feature in parts listings  or owner manuals but does get a mention in the features books. The VM lo-comp Red motor did exist, I've seen body ID plates (stamped L23) for those VB Commodores so fitted.

 

Dr Terry

[rodomo]

I've heard that Rodomo's 202 is the fastest naturally aspirated 202 white VB Commodore to lap Sandown. That must make it a rare beast ????

 I'm still claiming that title!

[rodomo]

Hi all,i was wondering what the rarest engine would have been installed by GMH into its cars.

 Can of worms but...................................."In 1908 Holden moved into the automotive field, before becoming a subsidiary of the U.S.-based General Motors (GM) automotive group in 1931. After becoming a subsidiary of GM, the company was named General Motors-Holden's Ltd"

 

So???.....Seeing as though the 1st Holden car wasn't built until 1948? Would the cars that GMH were building prior count?