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Holden Pull Out

Started by eyepeeler , Dec 05 2013 09:06 PM
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#601 _LS1 Taxi_

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:02 PM

So guys have we finally reached an agreement ?

 

 

Is there a whale in the dunny or not ?

 

 

I'm too scared to look...

 

PMSL  :lol:


#602 _LXSS350_

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

Fuel economy figure for SS will be slightly higher than Camaro. For the deliberately difficult my point with the corporate fuel economy is that Chev already have there order books full for cars that don't meet CAFE - new corvette and Camaro. Sales of Camaro and Corvette are therefore limited by sales of Volt and other economy cars that Chev sells. Unless Chev wants to pay fines they can only sell a limited number of cars that don't meet the requirement, given the choice if you were Chev what would you sell - there two made in America hero cars or the imported car from Australia? And that is how SS sales impact corvette and Camaro sales. Like I said in the whole business scheme of things it is a miracle that Chev is prepared to sell any at all.

 

 

 

GM's sports coupes are a nothing volume and have a nothing impact on CAFE vs GM's real anti CAFE volume models the Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche. To say the SS will effect GM in any significant way is not true because its only massive sales of the volt, spark, sonic and malibu that can balance their big truck sales.

 

The GM flagship hero the corvette is the only usa built sportscar. Also a few camaro's, vettes and the vf are neither here or there vs GM's numbers that they do yearly with its big truck sales (that drive its profit). The vette and to a far lesser degree the camaro might be poster hero's and icons but they don't mean sh#t to GM beancounters. As a commentator from the NYSE said GM would drop everything (but its trucks) if CAFE didn't exist.

 

The market for anything outside of trucks is seen to be in the all too hard all too marginal basket. Yanks seem to only care about trucks and so there is a gap in the market and my feeling always has been that if supported the big dunny range (taxi,ute,wagon) would do well in the usa and could be Holdens lifesaver. So its interesting to see GM let Holden die rather than look at helping. The side product is that GM gets to sell its product here.

 

BMW Spartanburg factory in the US produces X3, X5, X6 and Z4 models for the world, not just the US. It has also been upgraded to be able to build all sedans up to the 7 series and the Mini as well I believe. And dare I say, all without prohibitive union involvement.

 

Wow so that's a lot more than I thought they would do. The numbers and breakdown will be there. Its a different approach than Merc use and after seeing that CAFE fine Merc are doing quite nicely in the usa as well.

 

LXSS350

 

Whilst they aren't answering the phone in the call centre your highly skilled friends in Chennai, India are spewing out 7 series.

 

As well as the rest of the BMW line up.

 

 

After a long talk I think young Mitch (aka Rauel) from AT&T customer service, he said he  is doing very nicely putting together that new 7 series and I understand it leaves Chennai  for Canberra soon. Its Mr Abbotts new bomb proof limo.

 

Be nice to see young Mitch's workmanship in Canberra. Perhaps he will get a bonus so he can cut back his after hours work in answering AT&T customer service calls? Who knows but Chennai is always on the movers and shakers list in all the business papers even the Fin Review.

Are these LA cop cars SSs or are they Caprices ? When I was in the US last year, Caprice cop cars were everywhere on the east coast.

 

LA Police are only using the lwb caprice


Edited by LXSS350, 24 December 2013 - 02:19 PM.

#603 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

Long wheel base...more room for fat criminals, lol

#604 _LXSS350_

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:50 PM

Long wheel base...more room for fat criminals, lol

 

Jeff weight and size is an issue in the usa so yes lwb. However only one way to be 100% sure so take a loud hailer, tape measure (metric) and plain brown box that you can show out the window, go do some donuts down LAX drive around, all while wearing a long beard and turban yelling Jihād you yankee motherfl#ckers. :stirpot:

 

PS NO redhead beards etc it will look fake. (take a look at how to beat top security with the famous Chaser Episode where they did it)

 

As long as you don't over do it and get shot, remember to get the leg room and width dimensions when they throw you into the back of the PPV.

 

Hell take a video while your doing it so we can watch on Youtube. (might also pay to get any containers on the way first in-case they send you to Guntanimo and waterboard you)


Edited by LXSS350, 24 December 2013 - 03:04 PM.

#605 _oz772_

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

After the recent event in the terminal Virgin Australia International and Virgin America use for passenger check in, I suspect it would be shoot first ask questions later. Might be lucky to get an ambulance ride, but that is about all.


Edited by oz772, 24 December 2013 - 03:01 PM.

#606 MARKL

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:37 PM

GM's sports coupes are a nothing volume and have a nothing impact on CAFE vs GM's real anti CAFE volume models the Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche. To say the SS will effect GM in any significant way is not true because its only massive sales of the volt, spark, sonic and malibu that can balance their big truck sales.
 
The GM flagship hero the corvette is the only usa built sportscar. Also a few camaro's, vettes and the vf are neither here or there vs GM's numbers that they do yearly with its big truck sales (that drive its profit). The vette and to a far lesser degree the camaro might be poster hero's and icons but they don't mean sh#t to GM beancounters. As a commentator from the NYSE said GM would drop everything (but its trucks) if CAFE didn't exist.
 
 t


Let me get this correct, you agree CAFE is an issue...you can see the impact CAFE has on Chev...you can see the local product Chev wants to sell...yet you still maintain that the commodore is crap because Chev are only aiming to sell small volumes?

#607 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 03:23 AM

The SuperSport and the Caprice PPV will then migrate to the Zeta II platform in time for the 2015 model year. When this happens, full production will shift to North America, thereby delivering a much larger market for the cop version. In addition to the SuperSport sedan, a cropped-rear-overhang sport wagon and a Ute pickup are being considered for the North American market.

Zeta II also will be used for two Chinese-market Buicks starting in late 2014, and one or both of these cars could arrive in North American showrooms if it’s determined that brand needs large rear-drive cars. Conspicuously absent from the Zeta II plans is anything from Cadillac. That’s another story—and another platform.

 

 

 

I new I would get to the real reason why Chev was saying only 900 initial ChevSS then between 1700 - 2000pa max

 

Its a short stop gap caused by GM wanting to get back to made in the usa, but also because zeta cars have been over weight caused by using mild steel and migrating to zeta 11 will easier allow the use of the more economical and newer LT1. The usa will start manufacturing using Zeta 11 for 2015 model ChevSS and Caprice PPV, and these new chassis will be using lighter hi-tensile steel.

 

 

The next-generation Camaro will be built in Michigan, at GM’s Lansing Grand River plant, alongside the Cadillac CTS and the ATS. The Camaro currently is produced at GM’s Oshawa assembly plant in Ontario, Canada.

 

Also interesting to note that while Camaro moves to Alpha its also moving out of Canada and back to built in Michigan.


Edited by LXSS350, 25 December 2013 - 03:26 AM.

#608 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:08 AM

After the recent event in the terminal Virgin Australia International and Virgin America use for passenger check in, I suspect it would be shoot first ask questions later. Might be lucky to get an ambulance ride, but that is about all.

Interesting story on the inept TSA..

http://www.huffingto..._n_4494308.html

#609 _LXSS350_

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

We don't have any security they wait till after the fact down here, so inept would be a superb national security rating for us.

 

http://au.news.yahoo...geraldton-port/


#610 Bart

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

LX that was in April. Its a different story now however not totally solved.

Pity the gov don't take manufacturing security as seriously by using "some" tariff protection.


#611 S pack

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:11 AM

LX that was in April. Its a different story now however not totally solved.

Pity the gov don't take manufacturing security as seriously by using "some" tariff protection.

We don't need tariff protection to fix our Auto industry, just some pollies with the balls to legislate that from (say)1st January 2016, 80% of all new cars sold in OZ must be manufactured in OZ and they must contain at least 60% local parts content. 


Edited by S pack, 26 December 2013 - 10:11 AM.

#612 _Lazarus_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:18 AM

Interesting story on the inept TSA..

http://www.huffingto..._n_4494308.html

 

From what I've read lsraeIi security componies were responsible for the airports where the 4 aircraft allegedly involved in 9\ll departed from so I'm not surprised the US govt. is not interested in such offers.

 

Who ran security at all three airports where the 9/11 hijackings "allegedly" took place?

ICTS International / Huntsleigh USA - a wholly owned subsidiary
http://www.icts-int....6e03.html?id=13

ICTS is owned by two more Israelis - Ezra Harel and Menachem Atzmon. ICTS is run by "experts" in security and Israeli intelligence. Most employees were ex Shin Bet security agents.Was this security company at Dulles, Logan, and Newark airports so incredibly incompetent that it allowed 19 known Arabs to board 4 different planes with boxcutters, mace, and even a gun? What's wrong with this picture?

ICTS owner Menachem Atzmon was involved in an Israeli political scandal involving Ehud Olmert and other Likudnits in Israel.
http://www.rumormill...ames;read=89761

A few hours before the Patriot Act was passed, the Act was edited so that foreign companies in charge of 9/11 security would be exempt from liability lawsuits. This guaranteed that ICTS could not be forced by American courts to provide testimony or hand over incriminating surveillance videos from the airports.

 

 

 

 

 

.


Edited by Lazarus, 26 December 2013 - 10:27 AM.

#613 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:35 AM

I think anyone who took the time to do just a little research would know things are far from what we have been told by a controlled media......   but I guess it needs its own thread............   but just in case you've never thought about it...  this might bring you up to speed a bit ...  


#614 Ice

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 11:43 AM

What a load of crap ian if you believe that youd believe anything

#615 _LXSS350_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:29 PM

Let me get this correct, you agree CAFE is an issue...you can see the impact CAFE has on Chev...you can see the local product Chev wants to sell...yet you still maintain that the commodore is crap because Chev are only aiming to sell small volumes?



Look CAFE could be seen as a small plausable negative but not at ss volumes and not after GM had Pontiac and the G8 looking at 30,000+ units pa only in 2010. It's the old 2+2 simple doesn't add up to the 8 storyline you are being told is the correct answer.

Most here just read the garbage blame game, jump on the bandwagon and can't see past what they are told or have read. Business either makes sense or there is more to the story. That's why the whole GM story of niche within a niche made no sense and stunk of GM having an ulterior motive. So now that I have read the usa media rather than the oz media its clear what's going on and by this time next year zeta 2 will be producing usa made caprice and ss on a lighter hi tensile chassis and using an LT1 with 7 speed and the new 8 speed auto. GM has learnt some hard and fast lessons here since bankruptcy, and its closing down of Holden was just part of its "back to the usa" and back to business by being smarter while anything that doesn't/can't shape up has to be eliminated. Carrying the dead wood (non profit) in such a competitive market is not good business.

CAFE for GM is only an issue for the chev trucks. It not a problem for vette, camaro, ss as they are very very small volume sales and so are neither here or their vs chevs main volume / poor avg mileage (which is in its trucks). Its losses on volt are made up for by its trucks profits and that balance keeps them out of CAFE fines/penalties. As most articles will tell you CAFE although an inconvenience is easy to get around at this stage for GM. Ultimately the rules are changing over the next two years and they will have to find some far better economy out of their trucks regardless or face loosing a chunk of their income profit (98% of which is from trucks).

GM obviously see RWD as being a market they want especially now with Zeta2, Alfa and Omega. No doubt GM has answered the market as they now see their extreme Niche of Niche Rwd (Ycar) jumping from a poor 13,000 to very respectable 30,000pa which is something they have not done for a long time.

It shows what can be done if you give the market what it wants and what they want to buy. That's where GM lost sight of the bunny and nearly fell right off the cliff. Shame Holden didn't do the same.

I have never followed Holden except for the LH/LX Torana and HK,HG GTS Monaro periods The rest of what they have done just has held zero interest besides occasional beer talk at a barby. I like specific cars, I am not a brand worshipper, and even though I am a Holden supporter its more because I have Holdens and except for a few Stangs or the GT40 nothing else interests me from Fraud.

My choice or preference of cars has no relevance to this thread and my fetish and dislike for certain vehicles in no way biases My Belief is that Holden should never have closed manufacturing in Australia and I think this will severely damage the countries standing within the world, particularly in the future as we inevitably exhaust our non replenishable resource commodities.

The biggest difference between myself and many here is that I simply don't believe handouts, protection and tariffs form a good business practice. I find it makes that business weak, feeble and plain lazy. When events out of anyone's control inevitably change your already on the backfoot business, such economic downturn just leads to bigger heartache. If a business adapts and grows independently its obviously has a far better business spine than the one that is barely afloat running on charity.

Holden should have taken control of its own destiny and business. Instead they fell into the Australian expectation that someone will be handing out money to keep Holden afloat so we will do nothing to help ourselves and if it go's pear shaped we blame everyone else except management as after all we where just passengers on a runaway train.

This whole episode is just shameful and very sad for all Australians.

Edited by LXSS350, 26 December 2013 - 12:35 PM.

#616 kiwi-lilj

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:29 PM

What a load of crap ian if you believe that youd believe anything


Gene open your eyes.

#617 RallyRed

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:31 PM

knew I should have put a $5 Lottery ticket on it!!!

Osama Bin Laden = Reason for holden Pull out....I f$#n knew it......glad they got him for it.

#618 kiwi-lilj

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:34 PM

knew I should have put a $5 Lottery ticket on it!!!Osama Bin Laden = Reason for holden Pull out....I f$#n knew it......glad they got him for it.


Lol.

#619 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:41 PM

LXSS350, on 25 Dec 2013 - 18:37, said:
Holden should have taken control of its own destiny and business. Instead they fell into the Australian expectation that someone will be handing out money to keep Holden afloat so we will do nothing to help ourselves and if it go's pear shaped we blame everyone else except management as after all we where just passengers on a runaway train.

This whole episode is just shameful and very sad for all Australians.

I wonder if an upstart independant car company could ever take off their ? Anytime a country looses it's manufacturing base, it is going to be a problem in the long run I think...when you get dependant on other countries for everything, if the stuff ever hits the fan, you are going to be in big trouble.

Look at Tesla for example...they started up here producing a car in about a niche market as you can get, and they sell a bunch (over all of course) of them, even with prices in the 6 figure range for them. I see them on the roads here nearly every day it seems. And aside from some issues with they being able to source batteries, they seemed to be doing ok at least and have really high customer ratings from what I heard as well.

#620 Ice

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:43 PM

Gene open your eyes.

Its not me that has to open my eyes its all the dick heads in this world that believe crap like that blair
innocent people died lets leave it at that
and get back on topic ffs

#621 kiwi-lilj

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:03 PM

Its not me that has to open my eyes its all the dick heads in this world that believe crap like that blair
innocent people died lets leave it at that
and get back on topic ffs


Lol, I think this thread is very rarely on topic.

#622 Ice

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

It would be on topic if people didnt post crap that has nothing to do with the topic simple

#623 _LXSS350_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:22 PM

I wonder if an upstart independant car company could ever take off their ? Anytime a country looses it's manufacturing base, it is going to be a problem in the long run I think...when you get dependant on other countries for everything, if the stuff ever hits the fan, you are going to be in big trouble.

Look at Tesla for example...they started up here producing a car in about a niche market as you can get, and they sell a bunch (over all of course) of them, even with prices in the 6 figure range for them. I see them on the roads here nearly every day it seems. And aside from some issues with they being able to source batteries, they seemed to be doing ok at least and have really high customer ratings from what I heard as well.

 

Jeff I am in 100% agreement. With our size and the fragmentation on what will sell here -  that's the business model I would look at down here, something that's niche but smart and with an eye on the future. Look as you get too big it opens up a whole different set of issues, but your right Tesla was something you thought hell how can they sell at those prices with those sorts of issues still outstanding ----- I thought it will not last  ---- wrong. But its a niche and people with money pay for that, ++ I am sure with electric the image of saving the planet has some sort of viagra like motivation to spending.

 

Doesn't have to be electric but has to be focused on a niche not well served.


Edited by LXSS350, 26 December 2013 - 01:32 PM.

#624 _LS1 Hatch_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:29 PM

Take off "there" I should have typed.... I am going through the meat sweats after eating a HUGE prime rib xmas dinner...lol


And, Tesla took over an old facility that was a GM/Toyota plant...redid it all inside, but cool to save having to build an entire new plant.

#625 _Lazarus_

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:34 PM

Are you sure you're Italian Gene ?


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