190 replies to this topic

[Bart]

So do you use the LS1 computer with that converter?

[Bart]

So its for newer engines in older cars ie LS1 reluctor wheel car

[Bigfella237]

The sticker on the box says "58x TO 24x Conversion" which is newer engine to older computer, isn't that the way Kev wanted to go?

 

The website linked says:

 

The Lingenfelter TRG-002 module allows Gen IV GM V8 engines with the 58x crankshaft trigger or reluctor wheel and the 4x camshaft timing gear to be installed in earlier vehicles designed to accept the 24x crankshaft trigger wheel and the 1x camshaft trigger wheel

[Bart]

Yes that's right

This is the E38 ECM pin outs in case Kev changes his mind and use VZ/VE computer assuming the VZ and VE are the same
http://pcmhacking.ne...php?f=32&t=3960

The sticker on the box says "58x TO 24x Conversion" which is newer engine to older computer, isn't that the way Kev wanted to go?
 
The website linked says:

[Bart]

Whats your email Kev  i can email LS1 diagrams. Its in PDF

[BIG KEV]

PM sent

[BIG KEV]

What I am trying to do is run a LS2 Motor with the LS1 computer and converter box
this way I get away from running the fly by wire and can run a factory Torana accelerator cable

[Bigfella237]

Surely you can get DBW tuned-out of an E38 ECU?

 

Even using an aftermarket ECU would be a lot easier (and probably cheaper) than changing the reluctor wheel, cam drive and wiring loom.

[Bart]

I think the converter is for his relator and use LS1 computer

Surely you can get DBW tuned-out of an E38 ECU?
 
Even using an aftermarket ECU would be a lot easier (and probably cheaper) than changing the reluctor wheel, cam drive and wiring loom.

[Bigfella237]

Yeah I forgot about the converter box, but that doesn't do anything at the computer end, it connects directly to the CKP & CMP sensors and then to the connectors that you unplugged off those sensors.

 

The main problem is that you need to use the LS1 wiring loom with the LS1 computer, but the early loom will probably need a lot of work to fit an LS2 motor as most of the electrical connectors are different.

 

Although I guess someone like Ultimate may have a custom loom available?

 

Besides that, you can't fit a three-bolt Gen III (LS1) cable throttle body to a four-bolt Gen IV (LS2) manifold, although there may well be adapter plates to help with that too?

[Bart]

You make some very good points

Yeah I forgot about the converter box, but that doesn't do anything at the computer end, it connects directly to the CKP & CMP sensors and then to the connectors that you unplugged off those sensors.

 

The main problem is that you need to use the LS1 wiring loom with the LS1 computer, but the early loom will probably need a lot of work to fit an LS2 motor as most of the electrical connectors are different.

 

Although I guess someone like Ultimate may have a custom loom available?

 

Besides that, you can't fit a three-bolt Gen III (LS1) cable throttle body to a four-bolt Gen IV (LS2) manifold, although there may well be adapter plates to help with that too?

[Bigfella237]

Surely you can get DBW tuned-out of an E38 ECU?

 

I've been looking for an answer to this question and apparently it's no, for two reasons...

 

While the earlier cable throttle bodies had a Throttle Position Sensor, the Gen IV ECU uses the electronic accelerator pedal as a TPS, if it doesn't see a signal from the pedal it goes into limp mode.

 

Secondly, the earlier throttle bodies had an Idle Air Control valve that controls the idle speed by allowing a controlled amount of air to bypass the closed throttle, the later DBW system uses the actual electronic throttle itself and so has no IAC valve.

[BIG KEV]

That's right Bigfella237
As I said in my early post I am running the LS2 motor ,but I am going to run the LS1 computer and harness
I have been on the phone to a company in Queensland Killa Kustoms and they can fix up the LS1 harness and computer to suit the Ls2 and this is why I need the converter box 58 to 24 tooth reluctor so every thing works
Bart sent me some wiring details will study then this week

[Bigfella237]

Seems like a hell of a lot of trouble to go through just to use a cable accelerator Kev, what's wrong with having the electronic throttle?

[Bart]

I guess theres one way to find out which way to go. If you get the LS1 gear to work that's great. Let me know if you need a hand.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Seems like a hell of a lot of trouble to go through just to use a cable accelerator Kev, what's wrong with having the electronic throttle?

Use a VZ Commodore pedal, job done.

[Bart]

HELLO why not??

Theres always a why not ):

Use a VZ Commodore pedal, job done.

Well well well

http://www.ebay.com....=item3f4c82a50b

New

http://www.ebay.com....=item2ece0d6de2

Edited by Bart, 16 May 2015 - 07:40 PM.

[BIG KEV]

Ok I will try and explain it the best way I can ....
Firstly I want to run a cable throttle body as this gives a better response and feel ...with no delay like the electronic LS2 set up fly by wire
and secondly is when you hold a LS1 flat to the boards it sits on 6 grand but on a ls2 set up it revs to 6 then drops to 4500 then back to 6 grand
I have been speaking to many guys that done this very same set up and have been advise this is the best way to do it ...
All the guys using LS2 LS3 etc all use the LS1 computer and harness
Thanks again Bart for the wiring and yes I will call you if I get stuck

[Bart]

I didn't know that about the RPM. I see why you are doing this way.
If you can pick their brain how they did it that would be great. Im guessing they changed connectors etc
Keep up posted

Ok I will try and explain it the best way I can ....
Firstly I want to run a cable throttle body as this gives a better response and feel ...with no delay like the electronic LS2 set up fly by wire
and secondly is when you hold a LS1 flat to the boards it sits on 6 grand but on a ls2 set up it revs to 6 then drops to 4500 then back to 6 grand
I have been speaking to many guys that done this very same set up and have been advise this is the best way to do it ...
All the guys using LS2 LS3 etc all use the LS1 computer and harness
Thanks again Bart for the wiring and yes I will call you if I get stuck

[neglectedtorana]

I asked OzTrack some time ago about tuning and removing VATS and they said they would be able to do it with the fly by wire LS1

I will check regarding the rev limiter feature as I don't want to end up with that sort of engine behaviour

[Bigfella237]

People like to make a big deal of it but disabling VATS is nothing special if you have the appropriate cable and tuner. You read the tune, turn off all the VATS options (G1204 thru G1209)...

 

 vatsdisable.jpg   123.72K   0 downloads

 

...then write the tune back to the ECU. Done!

 

It takes a little longer if you need to search out the unlock key for the ECU, up to about a week, but again the software to do that is also available (and free as it happens). Unfortunately the tuner and cable will set you back the best part of a grand so not really economical unless you plan to play with the tune on an ongoing basis.

[Bart]

Looks familiar
I know of a guy who will do it for around $100

People like to make a big deal of it but disabling VATS is nothing special if you have the appropriate cable and tuner. You read the tune, turn off all the VATS options (G1204 thru G1209)...
 
vatsdisable.jpg
 
...then write the tune back to the ECU. Done!
 
It takes a little longer if you need to search out the unlock key for the ECU, up to about a week, but again the software to do that is also available (and free as it happens). Unfortunately the tuner and cable will set you back the best part of a grand so not really economical unless you plan to play with the tune on an ongoing basis.

[Bigfella237]

A slight correction, I just checked again on that software I mentioned was free and it seems it's free no longer.

 

Your guy who said he'll do it for $100 is doing you a great price, depending on the hardware you have, a licence for each ECU is anywhere from US$100-200, unless he purchased a bulk licence but they're bloody expensive so you still can't go doing tunes for nothing.

 

If you do want to do your own tunes, these are the two main contenders:

 

HPTuners http://www.hptuners.com/ - US$499 with 8 "credits" (Gen III ECU licence is 2 credits, Gen IV ECU licence is 4 credits, additional credits US$49.99 ea)

EFILive Flashscan V2 https://www.efilive.com - US$899 with 2 licences (one licence per ECU, additional licences US$125 ea)

 

Plus this is a handy scan tool developed especially for Australian Holdens:

Software on ELM Street http://www.envyouscu...-on-elm-street/ - AU$50 diagnostic tool only but can brute-force an ECU unlock key, note that if you buy one of their cables for $70 the software licence is free.

 

 

[BIG KEV]

Just looking at these converter boxes, I had wrongly assumed that the converter would replace the E38 ECU, then connect to the earlier LS1 PCM, that way you could use the correct wiring loom for the engine, but it seems the converter box connects to the individual sensors themselves...
 
http://www.lingenfel...egory_Code=C163
 
L460065397_900.jpg
 
DSCF6278_900.jpg
 
So it looks like you must use the loom that came with the computer and adapt all the other connectors to suit the engine?

Where can I buy this in Sydney ?
And I forgot to mention another reason for wanting cable throttle body is that at a later date if I decide to remove the fuel injection set up and manifold and fit a hi rise manifold and twin carbs I can with just a tune ....