96 replies to this topic

[StephenSLR]

From another forum

 

This is a NEW scheme to be run in addition to the Historic scheme that is already in place (and will continue unchanged).  The new scheme is for MODIFIED vehicles that are at least 30 year old.  The vehicle must still comply with NSW registration requirements and meet all the rules necessary to be on full rego.  So, if you have a blower standing too high in the engine bay, then that car will not be getting registered under any NSW rules - your car still needs to comply with the registration rules and you will need engineer certification plus pink slip - not sure about blue slip but I think it will need one for first time rego (emphasis on I THINK).

The log book is going to be a strict rule.  No log book entry means no registration; means two fines of about $750 each - unregistered and uninsured (CTP).

Is 60 days really sufficient?  It seems reasonably generous for a car on limited use and would definitely be OK if you have other toys in the garage.  The saving from a full rego cost of around $1,000 going down to about $100 per year may well be an incentive but like all things, it is a choice the individual will make. 

You will still need to be a member of an RMS endorsed club however the compliance falls more under the control of RMS via the need to comply with vehicle safety requirements.

 

The RMS are saying to those currently on full rego, to stay on full rego until expiry (there is very little refund for early cancellation) and then transfer to the Modified Rego scheme.

 

Historic Vehicle Log Book Trial

The Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight, Duncan Gay, has asked Transport for NSW and Roads and Maritime Services to develop a Historic Vehicle Log Book Trial.
The Log Book Trial will allow all operators of existing vehicles within the Historic Vehicle Scheme to opt-in. These vehicles may then be used for 60 days of general use (i.e. club events, maintenance and personal use) each year. Each day’s use must be recorded in a Log Book.

New entrants to the Historic Vehicle Scheme after the trial commences may apply for inclusion in the Log Book Trial, subject to the existing historic vehicle and registered operator eligibility criteria.

The trial will operate for two years, with an evaluation to be completed during this period as part of the Roads and Maritime Services review of the overall Conditional Registration Scheme.

The Historic Vehicle Log Book Trial will commence on 1 October 2015. Details on how to opt in to the trial will be updated on this page from this date.
Customers interested in the trial should email [email protected]

 

Dear customer

Thank you for your interest in the Log Book trial announced by the Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight which will commence on 1 October 2015.

The trial will allow all operators of existing vehicles within the Historic Vehicle Scheme to opt-in. These vehicles may then be used for 60 days of general use (i.e. club events, maintenance and personal use) each year. Each day’s use must be recorded in the Log Book.

Existing operators
To opt in, the registered operator or their representative must attend a registry or service centre with:
- proof of identity such as a NSW driver licence,
- the current Certificate of Conditional Registration (if available),
- the current Certificate of Approved Operations (if available)
- a completed Adjustment of records to have the vehicle’s conditions updated
  (http://www.rms.nsw.g...-of-records.pdf).

New operators
New entrants to the Historic Vehicle Scheme after the trial commences may apply for inclusion in the Log Book Trial, subject to the existing historic vehicle and registered operator eligibility criteria.

To conditionally register a vehicle in the Historic Vehicle Scheme, customers must provide:
- a completed Application for Conditional Registration form (http://www.rms.nsw.g...itional-reg.pdf)
- proof of identity such as a NSW driver licence
- Proof of registration entitlement (eg an original receipt for the vehicle, which clearly shows the buyer’s name, the seller’s name, address and signature, the VIN or Chassis/frame or serial number and the date of acquisition)
- A Historic Vehicle Declaration not greater than 42 days old
  (http://www.rms.nsw.g...declaration.pdf)
  Note: a vehicle safety inspection report must be presented if the club is less than two years old.

Existing and new operators will be issued:
- Certificate of Conditional Registration
- Certificate of Approved Operations, with the updated conditions
- Historic Vehicle Log Book Trial form
 
Historic vehicles (including trailers) must be 30 years of age or older as from the year of manufacture.

Historic vehicles must be as close to original condition as possible, with no alterations except for safety features such as seat belts and turn indicators or period accessories and options, if desired.

The registered operator must be a member of a Roads and Maritime recognised historic vehicle club (http://www.rms.nsw.g...hicle-clubs.pdf).

If you have further questions, please contact Roads and Maritime Services on 13 22 13.

Yours sincerely

Roads and Maritime Services

 

There is information out there that is questionable (the comment about the 60 day rule does not include club meeting attendances came from the drive.com.au site and may not be 100% correct).

A bit of background information can be obtained from the recent ACMA Conference held in Wollondilly a couple of weeks back.  



Some points of interest, @ 32:27s: the bone structure of the new scheme was summarised; @ 1Hr 5min Alan Hay speaks about what the motoring enthusiast party are doing to support the club members.  

In summary, early days just now, the meat is still to be added to the skeleton (and should be done by 1st October) so give a little time for the detail to get out.  
Don't believe everything you read and look on the scheme as a positive step.

s

[StephenSLR]

I think it could make you a bit of a target; the cops will have an excuse to pull you over to check the log book; oh looky, let's check the car too. Of course no big deal if you've got nothing to hide but an inconvenience if you're in a hurry to get somewhere.

s

[Dr Terry]

I think it could make you a bit of a target; the cops will have an excuse to pull you over to check the log book; oh looky, let's check the car too. Of course no big deal if you've got nothing to hide but an inconvenience if you're in a hurry to get somewhere.

s

I think this is part of the idea. I have no problems with cops pulling you over for look-see, especially if you're doing something stupid. Currently there are many cars flaunting the H-plate rules & even more out there illegally modified beyond anything considered reasonable for a street car.

 

If your car is properly engineered & legally registered within the new rules, you will have the paperwork to prove it. Therefore you will have nothing to hide & no fear of a copper victimising you.

 

I believe the work that the ACMC guys have put in here, will make things better for all of us, in the long run

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

In Vic I haven't ever been pulled over in approx 7000km over almost 2 years of driving about in the taxi.

 

True, most classic car drivers are now of age; I haven't been pulled over for a look-see since I was on my P's. A lot of the time they'd look over at me and think I was too young (or long haired) to be owning an SL/R.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 06 September 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[rexy]

This is a great step forward for NSW.
It releases car enthusiasts to get out and drive their cars where and when they want rather than living at the behest of their club. It also reduces the influence of the fuddy duddies on club committees who insist the only worthwhile old car is a bog stocker.
Hopefully participants in this new scheme will be able to do it through the ASRF as we can in VIC.
My SR plate car has never been pulled over despite looking like cop bait. Plenty of friendly waves and smiles from the constabulary over the years.

I am lucky to use 30 of my allotted days each year and am thankful for an arrangement that costs less than $200 all up to do so.

[StephenSLR]

It also reduces the influence of the fuddy duddies on club committees who insist the only worthwhile old car is a bog stocker.

 

That's a rule set by the RTA; if a club flaunts that rule they risk having their club licence revoked.

 

s

[rexy]

That's a rule set by the RTA; if a club flaunts that rule they risk having their club licence revoked.
 
s

The RTA (or VICROADS down here) sets these standards in consultation with clubs and other interested parties. It is thanks to the excellent long term work of certain club members and the ASRF in forging relationships with these bodies that Victoria has led the way in modified vehicle schemes.
Far too many clubs Australia wide remain hostage to blinkered committee members obsessed with originality. See TBMs response above...

[StephenSLR]

Far too many clubs Australia wide remain hostage to blinkered committee members obsessed with originality.

 

Those 'concours' types do exist without doubt; you see them at car shows doing the judging, etc. I'm sure they have many enemies, lol.

 

The RTA historic scheme also states: 'Historic vehicles must be as close to original condition as possible, with no alterations except for safety features such as seat belts and turn indicators or period accessories and options, if desired."

 

Thankfully, they're now considering a modified option.

 

s

[Dr Terry]

Dr Terry , will the ACMC be notifying their clubs before the Trials starting date ? I asked my Club Registrar about it , the reply was " I have heard nothing , I'm not interested ".

OK guys, a lot of the info on here so far has been hear-say at best. The RMS e-mail in notable for its lack of detail, on purpose, because many details are yet to be ironed out.

 

I have been in contact with those 'in the know' this morning (Sunday) & the message I am getting is that it may NOT be up & running by Oct 1st, because of the shear amount of work to get it going.

 

I will be attending the CMC committee meeting this coming Wednesday night & I'm sure a lot more of the blanks will be filled in.

 

This is an important distinction too, you'll note I said CMC, not ACMC. The CMC is the Council of Motor Clubs NSW, which has around 160 affiliated car clubs. The ACMC on the other hand is an umbrella group bringing together the CMC, Street Rod Federation, Street Machine Assoc. 4WD, Motorcycle Assoc. etc. etc. in other words not member clubs, but member groups. So if your club is a member of the CMC you will hear all the 'correct' details at the CMC general meeting.

 

It's not the club registrar that will hear about it, it should be your CMC delegate. If your car club is not a CMC member, but is an RMS registered club, the RMS will eventually notify all such clubs with the necessary info. If you are not the member of a car club, or if you are, but your club is not RMS recognised, then you will need to go thru the steps to 'make it so'.

 

Another point, is that many people think that it's the old 'fuddy duddy' types in the stock car clubs which have held all of this up. They couldn't be further from the point, it is us old 'fuddy duddy' types, that created the ACMC & approached the RMS to make all of this happen.

 

Dr Terry.

[Dr Terry]

Those 'concours' types do exist without doubt; you see them at car shows doing the judging, etc. I'm sure they have many enemies, lol.

I don't know where this sentiment originates !!

 

Since I'm the head concours judge at the Shannons Eastern Creek Classic, the oldest & largest classic car show in Australia, I can only assumed this is aimed at guys like me.

 

Many look at me with my grey hair, judging concours cars & forget that I also own many modified cars & am actively involved in drag racing, as well as running a car parts business, supplying the trade with stock & performance car parts.

 

Why is it that ALL car enthusiasts can't co-exist & enjoy our hobby as one ?

 

Dr Terry 

[StephenSLR]

I don't know where this sentiment originates !!

 

It's from guys that have a grudge their car didn't make pass for historic rego, win a trophy, score the most points, etc.  The NCRS in the USA (Corvette) have a point system of 100 and they deduct points for every inconsistency and I've seen harsh words against them on the US Corvette forum; some say there's collusion and it's 'who you know'; I don't know if there's any truth, more than likely it's sour grapes.

 

At a Mustang day I saw a guy with a spanking 67 fastback, metallic jade green, gleaming blower sticking out of it, gorgeous car all around; when I was admiring and asking about his car, he just went off; 'those b*stards wouldn't know a good car if it hit them, they gave trophies to sh*tboxes',  etc..  Of course it was obvious they gave trophies to cars that filled specific titles, he probably just missed out but I let him have his rant without interrupting him.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 06 September 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Dr Terry]

It's from guys that have a grudge their car didn't make pass for historic rego, win a trophy, score the most points, etc.  The NCRS in the USA (Corvette) have a point system of 100 and they deduct points for every inconsistency and I've seen harsh words against them on the US Corvette forum; some say there's collusion and it's 'who you know'; I don't know if there's any truth, more than likely it's sour grapes.

 

At a Mustang day I saw a guy with a spanking 67 fastback, metallic jade green, gleaming blower sticking out of it, gorgeous car all around; when I was admiring and asking about his car, he just went off; 'those b*stards wouldn't know a good car if it hit them, they gave trophies to sh*tboxes',  etc..  Of course it was obvious they gave trophies to cars that filled specific titles, he probably just missed out but I let him have his rant without interrupting him.

 

s

We are talking about 2 different subjects here, concours judging & modified cars are not even connected. Obviously a car with a blower out of the bonnet, no matter how good, is not concours !! Look up the definition of concours & restoration (2 terms usually used wrongly) before you go any further.

 

​I really need to know where concours judging, the Corvette NCRS, original seatbelts (or not), modified show cars, have anything to do with the current subject. We are talking about concessional registration.

 

Winning trophies for concours & being allowed H-plates again, are not really connected.

 

Sadly, many people take all of this out of context. The reason we are discussing this is because the current H-plate system in NSW does not allow modifications of any type. The RTA/RMS rules are, word for word, quite simply:- "Historic vehicles must be as close to original condition as possible, with no alterations except for safety features such as seat belts and turn indicators or period accessories and options, if desired."

 

The new system will address the need for 30+ year old modified cars (street machines etc.) to be legally allowed concessional rego.

 

Any club that rejects a car for H-plates because it is not concours, is missing the whole point. The issue we are trying to address is, that any car that is "modified" is not currently (legally) allowed H-plates. As long as the car in question is not "modified" it should be allowed, but many car clubs have interpreted that rule differently to others. I believe that the problem has always been:- at what point does a "period accessory" become a "modification" & when is a "modification", not an "alteration" ??

 

It also seems many people think that there are simply 2 schools of thought here, the "concours originality Nazis" or the "street machine hoons". This is part of the problem !!

 

These new rules (whatever they are) will hopefully bring ALL car enthusiasts together & not create division.

 

I believe that it doesn't matter whether the car is an authentic original or a modified show car, we should all admire them as part of our shared hobby.

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

Sorry, you asked about the sentiment against fuddy duddy old guys that like things bog stock; I was explaining my experience of those with a gripe against them.

 

s

[Dr Terry]

Yes, I see that, but what does that have to do with new concessional rego scheme ?

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

Yes, I see that, but what does that have to do with new concessional rego scheme ?

 

Ah, I'm not sure how it is with the Holden clubs but a few of the US car clubs here are strict on which cars they approve for club rego; they won't allow cars with rims larger than what is period correct, etc. to be considered for club rego; some of the committee members are concours judges; usually older guys that some of the younger ones see as being too strict..

 

I don't have issue with them; I understand their reasons.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 06 September 2015 - 10:05 PM.

[Dr Terry]

Ah, I'm not sure how it is with the Holden clubs but a few of the US car clubs here are strict on which cars they approve for club rego; they won't allow cars with rims larger than what is period correct, etc. to be considered for club rego; some of the committee members are concours judges; usually older guys that some of the younger ones see as being too strict..

 

I don't have issue with them; I understand their reasons.

 

s

Yes, the wide rims things is a major issue.

 

The simple fact is that the RTA/RMS do not allow an increase in track of more than 1-inch over stock, beyond that you need an engineers certificate. Any car that requires an engineers cert. is not eligible for H-plates, end of story.

 

The period correct attitude is basically correct. This is my point re: "when does an accessory become a modification" ? A modification is not allowed under the current RTA rules & that is part of the reasoning behind the new rules.

 

These guys in the "US clubs" are probably older & wiser than many & are covering there own backsides, because wider rims are simply not allowed past a certain point.

 

Because I'm a CMC committee member I've spoken at many different car club meetings on this topic & it's always the same drama. Guys guys just want to drive there old cars on H-plates when they are 'slightly outside the rules', & they get upset when the car club official (quite rightly) draws a line in the sand. The club member gets the sh!ts & then the all car club officials a*seholes & then it escalates from there.

 

If the new rules are all they are hoped, then we shall all be friends again.

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

If the new rules are all they are hoped, then we shall all be friends again.

 

That will depend on what they mean by 'modified'. Will the modification be only to 'period correctness' or modified to any engineer certification?

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 06 September 2015 - 10:48 PM.