87 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Terry said all Holdens, not all Toranas.

[S pack]

^Except if it was an L34.

I think you will find the LH Torana SL/R 5000 with L34 had to be ADR 27 compliant like every other passenger vehicle manufactured on and from 1 January 1974.

[arrimar]

I was pointing out the preheat system isn't fitted. Is it a requirement of ADR27?

[yel327]

Can't be or it'd be there. Possibly the logic was the cold air requirements in alpine or other such areas wasn't to be an issue for L34's?

[eyepeeler]

^^ WTF?? wouldn't ALL Holdens mean ALL Toranas. Torana, Kingswood what ever, all made by Holden.

[yel327]

Technically no. In late 1974 HJ other than Statesman was the Holden car. LH was the Torana or V sized car. So what Dr Terry said is correct and to be fair HJ was being discussed, although today people seem to not understand that "a Holden" was the full sized car.

[S pack]

Can't be or it'd be there. Possibly the logic was the cold air requirements in alpine or other such areas wasn't to be an issue for L34's?

I think the air preheat system wasn't required because the L34 had a manual choke control.

[yel327]

^^Could well be the case, and makes sense as 6cyl had a manual choke too. This will actually explain Dave why the L34 had a manual choke - it had to if it wasn't to get the air pre-heat system.

[S pack]

Nope.....          

 

   Holden was not just the name of the "full size car"    Holden is the Brand Name of the company that produces and sells its cars under.    They also named  some of their models "Holden" after the Company first Chairman, Sir Edward Holden.  but even most of them were differentiated by either Standard, Special, ect.   All cars produced by Holden Pty Ltd, are Holden's,   be it an EH Holden Utility, an LX Holden Torana, or VF Holden Commodore...    Size has nothing to do with what the cars are called,  some Holden's were called Holden, some Holden's were called Torana's, Some Holden's were called Ute's, or Monaro ect..    But they are definitely all Holden's.   

 

Dr Terry Quote .. "As HK1837 has said, ALL Holdens from late 73 onwards had ADR27, but it wasn't stamped on the ADR plate on commercials."  

 

I am no expert by any means, but didn't ADR27 refer mainly to pollution gear (Canister, PVC pipes ect)  and if it did, it would also apply to all Holden models built after that period ...   ??

Agree. It would depend on which meaning of "HOLDEN'S" that Dr Terry intended.

"Holden's" the manufacturer or "Holden's" the car line nameplate.

[StephenSLR]

today people seem to not understand that "a Holden" was the full sized car.

 

I agree with this. Back in the day you'd tell people you owned a Torana rather than a Holden, of course everyone knew it was made by Holden. If someone said they owned a Holden it was likely to be an EH, EK, HR, HQ, etc.

 

YMMV

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 25 February 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[yel327]

Same bullshit incorrect argument Ian! A Torana is not a Holden car, never has been, never will be. The only Holden car of that era was the local 48-215 to HZ except Statesman.

[eyepeeler]

Same bullshit incorrect argument Ian! A Torana is not a Holden car, never has been, never will be. The only Holden car of that era was the local 48-215 to HZ except Statesman.

To you it maybe a bullshit argument and technically you may well be right.
To me, a Torana is a Holden because Holden built it.

I don't care if the wording or naming of cars by smart Holden people is what you say it is.
Holden built my Torana so therefore it is, a Holden.

The majority of people will think this way and they are happy with it.
I guess you have to ask yourself, how long do you want to keep telling people your side of this story, even if it is correct, before you realise they don't care and a Torana is a Holden.

[StephenSLR]

The majority of people will think this way and they are happy with it.

 

The majority of people don't know the difference between an LH and an LX, which SL/R decals and paint schemes belong on which car, what Toranas came with flares, what a Sunbird is, etc. so we need those with the right knowledge to set records straight and dispel all the myths.

 

You can feel 'happy with it' and that's fine but this a technical forum where you come to get information and finer details; I like learning new things from those who were around during the heyday when I visit here.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 25 February 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[arrimar]

http://www.uniquecar...mini_td_zoomall

[eyepeeler]

The majority of people don't know the difference between an LH and an LX, which SL/R decals and paint schemes belong on which car, what Toranas came with flares, what a Sunbird is, etc. so we need those with the right knowledge to set records straight and dispel all the myths.
 
You can feel 'happy with it' and that's fine but this a technical forum where you come to get information and I like learning new things from those who were around during the heyday when I visit here.
 
s

Agreed with you Steve, most people don't know the difference between LH and LX etc etc.
We do need that knowledge of people like Dr Terry, Yel327, RedA9X, OuterControl, and other people who have good insight.

I guess sometimes I feel frustrated that it gets too technical and that's why over the last year or so we have seen so many people drop out of the forum.

I know this sounds hypocritical, but I understand what Yel327 is saying about Holden and Torana and tend to believe in what he has said.
He points out why, and I actually believe it.
But if I went and tried to tell someone at a car show or at a pub or at a BBQ at home with non car friends that a Torana is not a Holden they would more than likely laugh so hard that it would be embarresing.
It would be too hard and would take to long to explain, and in the end, would the person be interested.

I guess that's why I said what I said about a Torana being a Holden, cause when I walk out the door of this forum and other groups like this, that's what it is to everyone else.

[StephenSLR]

I guess sometimes I feel frustrated that it gets too technical and that's why over the last year or so we have seen so many people drop out of the forum.

 

If they drop out of the forum it's probably due to other reasons or personalities clashing. The forum is what it is and maybe it is too technical for some people or they only joined to have a browse ask what they specifically wanted to know and left, the banter is not for everyone. 

 

As an aside, since facebook popped up, most of the forums I'm a member of have turned into graveyards. The car forums are still going strong and in particular the Torana and Mustang forums are the most active ones I partake in. It goes to show how popular our cars are.

 

But if I went and tried to tell someone at a car show or at a pub or at a BBQ at home with non car friends that a Torana is not a Holden they would more than likely laugh so hard that it would be embarrassing. It would be too hard and would take to long to explain, and in the end, would the person be interested?

 

Yeah, this is the case with a lot of things, you know what is right and you have to adjust your conversation for your audience otherwise you come across as a massive nerd. I'm not going to walk into a nail salon and talk to the girls about the differences between an SL/R and an SL/R 5000, lol. I'll just tell them I own an old purple car and they'll smile and nod.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 25 February 2017 - 10:46 AM.

[yel327]

The actual name of this forum says it all!

 

I totally get why people get confused, but at the end of the day the true Holden car is the 48-215 through to the HZ, these are the Holden carline. The Company was GMH, but as Dr Terry has put into words before the Torana muddied the whole story to the point that the brand ceased being GMH during the 70's and became Holden, which is where the confusion comes from. GMH actually did it themselves too when the Holden Sunbird was sold alongside the Torana, and the new V car that replaced the Torana became the Holden Commodore. So you then had sold alongside each other:

 

Holden Sunbird.

Torana.

Holden Commodore.

Holden.

 

However I'll never stop using the correct terminology, and if a technical forum like this doesn't keep using the correct terminology it'll get lost forever.

 

To me a Holden is like a '68 Chevrolet. Sure Chevrolet also had Camaro, Corvette, Nova, Chevelle etc, but when you talk about the Chevrolet car you mean the full size car, and you don't call a Corvette a Chevrolet Corvette in general conversation- what else do you call a '57 Chevy? GMH didn't have changes at each model year like Chevrolet, so our equivalent is the Series code, so we have a HQ Holden or a HK Holden. Like the Corvette you call an LH a Torana or LH Torana whereas the Corvette would be a '74 Corvette as they don't have a series code but a model-year. And that is exactly the way i'd interpret Dr Terry's original Statement about "all Holden". I know Dr Terry does view this a bit different to me and he may well have meant all GMH product and forgot about the L34, but technically the statement is 100% accurate.   

[StephenSLR]

when you talk about the Chevrolet car you mean the full size car, and you don't call a Corvette a Chevrolet Corvette in general conversation

 

Very good analogy, the Torana is to Holden what the Corvette is to Chevrolet.

 

s

[StephenSLR]

 

^ Could this be hinting that the Torana is a 'breakaway' from the Holden range? They still let you know it's by Holden of course.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 25 February 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[S pack]

Same bullshit incorrect argument Ian! A Torana is not a Holden car, never has been, never will be. The only Holden car of that era was the local 48-215 to HZ except Statesman.

Correct, a Torana will never be a Holden but it will always be a Holden Torana. The Torana was made by Holden's so it will always be a General Motors - Holden's product.

[eyepeeler]

Then can you tell me why the big car range is called a HQ Kingswood and not a Holden 72 or HJ Kingswood is not a Holden 74 for example??
If you use Chev and corvette as the reference point for that point of view.

Edited by eyepeeler, 25 February 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Bigfella237]

Surely you all have better things to do on a sunny Saturday afternoon than sit in front of a computer arguing that a Holden is or isn't a Holden?

 

Go out to the shed, roll up the B&D, and take your Holden for a drive!