I had a quick look around but couldn't find anything, if there is another topic regarding this could someone please direct me to it?
I am planning on swapping over my belt driven fan to an electric one and I'm wondering what the best/cheapest/easiest fan to install onto a standard 6 cyl radiator on an LC S is.
Is it best to install the fan on the front (push through) or the back (draw through) of the radiator?
Also how much am I to be looking at paying for a reasonable fan that will fit the radiator with minal modification and work.
I think that is all
Cheers
-Al
Thermo Fan for an LC 6 cyl
Started by
_LC2250_
, Sep 25 2006 03:28 PM
36 replies to this topic
#2
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 25 September 2006 - 03:55 PM
I suggest you do it right the first time, so i'll put my opinion forward...
Get yourself 2 Davies Craig 10" thermo fans through your local parts place (autobarn, etc). If you want them to come on automatically you'll need the appropriate wiring and switching...
Total cost that i payed for my 2 Davies Craig 10" fans was $200. I have them wired to a toggle switch so i have full control over when they come on/off.
They are easy to mount (no modifications at all) and work 10 times better than the belt fan...
Cheers
Keith
Get yourself 2 Davies Craig 10" thermo fans through your local parts place (autobarn, etc). If you want them to come on automatically you'll need the appropriate wiring and switching...
Total cost that i payed for my 2 Davies Craig 10" fans was $200. I have them wired to a toggle switch so i have full control over when they come on/off.
They are easy to mount (no modifications at all) and work 10 times better than the belt fan...
Cheers
Keith
#3
_JBird_
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Posted 25 September 2006 - 04:09 PM
atm I have a V8 6 blade fan in my LJ (with a 202). Doesn't run too hot sits just below 180F around town, In traffic creeps a bit over 180 but the thermostat regulates that pretty well.
If it was up to me I would get a one 10" fan and get a shroud made up for a suck through set up. That would probably be the most efficient. I think whats more important than a fan is a shroud. It has been discussed before that the best way is to run a temperature relay through the thermostat and top rad hose to switch it on automatically just in case you forget.
If it was up to me I would get a one 10" fan and get a shroud made up for a suck through set up. That would probably be the most efficient. I think whats more important than a fan is a shroud. It has been discussed before that the best way is to run a temperature relay through the thermostat and top rad hose to switch it on automatically just in case you forget.
#4
rodomo
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:20 AM
You will probably find it easier to mount suck through as blow through would be limited in depth by body work esp. with a/c. I am about to fit 2 x magna fans to my old Rangie as they are reasonably compact and durable. I will be having the magna switch mounted low in the radiator as I have found that some high mounted thermal switches don't work so well if the water level is low.
Having said all that my system is not tested and is based on experience. You will probably find you could buy 2 x magna or camira fans and switch from the wreckers for the price of 1 craig davies new.
Having said all that my system is not tested and is based on experience. You will probably find you could buy 2 x magna or camira fans and switch from the wreckers for the price of 1 craig davies new.
#5
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:16 AM
Thats true rodomo, but buying new parts ensures their longevity too... Thats my main reason for doing it!! And IIRC Davies Craig offer a 2yr replacement warranty (including damage done to your motor in exceptional circumstances)...
At the end of the day it's up to budget and availability. My second choice would be the magna/camira setup and/or AU twin setup.
Cheers
Keith
At the end of the day it's up to budget and availability. My second choice would be the magna/camira setup and/or AU twin setup.
Cheers
Keith
#6
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:37 AM
If you have to go electric fans, get fans that are fitted as original equipment, buy new from present new car parts or get 2nd hand. Manufacturers arent interested in problems caused by poor quality here.
The DC stuff is overpriced and doesnt last.
The DC stuff is overpriced and doesnt last.
#7
_CraigA_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:52 AM
My LC uses an $80.00 12" thermofan purchased from Supercheap. Fan is front mounted and only required small mods to fan surround and radiator spaced backwards by 5mm.
Car runs 11.5:1 compression, two core radiator, and 72 Deg C thermostat. Doesn't get hot at all - was 36 Degrees in Sydney on Sunday and had no problems. Only time the temp gauge moved was when a BA XR6 Turbo got taught an old school lesson :-) temp went up to about 90 Deg, then back to 72 after a few k's at normal speeds.
Good luck with your LC
Cheers,
Craig.
Car runs 11.5:1 compression, two core radiator, and 72 Deg C thermostat. Doesn't get hot at all - was 36 Degrees in Sydney on Sunday and had no problems. Only time the temp gauge moved was when a BA XR6 Turbo got taught an old school lesson :-) temp went up to about 90 Deg, then back to 72 after a few k's at normal speeds.
Good luck with your LC
Cheers,
Craig.
#8
_LC2250_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 11:33 AM
Thank you for all the options put forward everyone.
With an exceptionally hot summer looming (and the first summer since the new motor) I am going to have to take extra care ... I think my first step will be a clutch fan and if that turns out to not deliver I'll be going with a big single electric fan or the twins as suggested ... all a matter of cost and what each delivers I guess.
CraigA what sort of numbers is that running to outdrag an XR6T? or is that common place to expect of most of the worked 6's around here?
Cheers
-Al
With an exceptionally hot summer looming (and the first summer since the new motor) I am going to have to take extra care ... I think my first step will be a clutch fan and if that turns out to not deliver I'll be going with a big single electric fan or the twins as suggested ... all a matter of cost and what each delivers I guess.
CraigA what sort of numbers is that running to outdrag an XR6T? or is that common place to expect of most of the worked 6's around here?
Cheers
-Al
#9
_CraigA_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:15 PM
Hi Al,
Engine was dynoed at 300 flywheel HP when built. Its a little bit down right now as I am only using ported XU1 headers instead of extractors, but still makes my 2.5 litre WRX feel second rate. Until a corner anyway ;-)
If you have overheating problems you need to look at why - does it run hot when your on the move? Or only when you are stationary? If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better. If it gets hot only when its stationary you will definitely need to improve airflow under idle conditions.
Nothing ruins your enjoyment of a car more than when it overheats..........
Cheers,
Craig.
Engine was dynoed at 300 flywheel HP when built. Its a little bit down right now as I am only using ported XU1 headers instead of extractors, but still makes my 2.5 litre WRX feel second rate. Until a corner anyway ;-)
If you have overheating problems you need to look at why - does it run hot when your on the move? Or only when you are stationary? If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better. If it gets hot only when its stationary you will definitely need to improve airflow under idle conditions.
Nothing ruins your enjoyment of a car more than when it overheats..........
Cheers,
Craig.
#10
RIM-010
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:23 PM
CraigA - Beautiful lookin LC mate.
I wouldnt mind gettin myself a thermo fan. Theres a Camira out the farm I'll have to check out, see if it's got a thermo fan.
Cheers for the advice.
RIM
I wouldnt mind gettin myself a thermo fan. Theres a Camira out the farm I'll have to check out, see if it's got a thermo fan.
Cheers for the advice.
RIM
#11
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 09:15 PM
Al, GMH-Torana.com has a fair few quick 6's about!! I'm not sure what an XR6 Turbo runs down the 1/4 mile, but my UC 179cu runs 14.8@95mph down the strip... I'll put to shame any 6cylinder falcon/commodore that does not have a turbo strapped to it!! The red motors are pretty good in a light car like a torry eh!!
Good luck with the fans...
Cheers
Keith
Good luck with the fans...
Cheers
Keith
#12
_CraigA_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 11:28 PM
Hey Keith,
Sorry for the topic grab Al but that time in a UC is very good. Must have some sort of fat engine :-D
An XR6 Turbo running stock is pulling mid 14's, a good time for a heavy car. 320 HP (246 KW's) pushing 1750kgs is pretty cool, but still under threat from a 1070kg 300HP (223 KW) Torana.
A guy at work has an APS stage three kit on his XR6T and gets 323 KW at the rear wheels. Now thats serious power, and best left alone by old blokes in LC XU1's ;-) Big money though for an XR6T + APS III, and we all know which one is appreciating and not dropping in value :-)
Gotta love a fat 6cyl Holden. :-) :-) God I hate XR6T's!!!!
Use this tool http://www.turbofast.com.au/Drag.html it's reasonably accurate for comparison.
Need to get some burnout pics here soon
Cheers,
Craig
Sorry for the topic grab Al but that time in a UC is very good. Must have some sort of fat engine :-D
An XR6 Turbo running stock is pulling mid 14's, a good time for a heavy car. 320 HP (246 KW's) pushing 1750kgs is pretty cool, but still under threat from a 1070kg 300HP (223 KW) Torana.
A guy at work has an APS stage three kit on his XR6T and gets 323 KW at the rear wheels. Now thats serious power, and best left alone by old blokes in LC XU1's ;-) Big money though for an XR6T + APS III, and we all know which one is appreciating and not dropping in value :-)
Gotta love a fat 6cyl Holden. :-) :-) God I hate XR6T's!!!!
Use this tool http://www.turbofast.com.au/Drag.html it's reasonably accurate for comparison.
Need to get some burnout pics here soon
Cheers,
Craig
Edited by CraigA, 27 September 2006 - 11:33 PM.
#13
_LC2250_
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 11:39 PM
woah ... what have you done to that 202 to get 300hp from it? thats awesome ...
I've been watching the progress with that UC of yours Keith and thats definitely nothing to sneeze at.
I'm not really trying to rectify a heating problem but I'm just looking to keep on top of it before the summer sets in. Mostly a case of I'd rather be safe than sorry.
I'm confused? how does adding a bigger fan or adding thermos not help while going at speed?
Cheers
-Al
I've been watching the progress with that UC of yours Keith and thats definitely nothing to sneeze at.
I'm not really trying to rectify a heating problem but I'm just looking to keep on top of it before the summer sets in. Mostly a case of I'd rather be safe than sorry.
I'm confused? how does adding a bigger fan or adding thermos not help while going at speed?
Cheers
-Al
#14
_CraigA_
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Posted 28 September 2006 - 12:01 AM
Hi Al,
300HP is achieveable, its just costs $ AND requires Webers :-)
Adding a thermo will help at idle or slow speeds because it will increase airflow through the radiator, at higher speeds though it will physically limit the air speed/volume through the radiator cooling fins.
Cheers,
Craig.
300HP is achieveable, its just costs $ AND requires Webers :-)
Adding a thermo will help at idle or slow speeds because it will increase airflow through the radiator, at higher speeds though it will physically limit the air speed/volume through the radiator cooling fins.
Cheers,
Craig.
#15
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Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:16 AM
^Agreed!!
A bit off topic again, the 179 in my UC's nothing hardcore really, XU-1 Bathurst cam, 350 Holley, 10:1 comp, 4speed, 3.08:1 single spinner, run in full street trim (101.6rwkW)... She hoots along, but the 6 is going to make way for an 8 in december... should go faster yet!! I have SU's at home, but never got around to fitting them up...
Back on topic, just get what you can afford if you dont want to fork out!! If your gonna keep the belt fan on, i'd suggest a single 10" thermo. If your gonna take it off, get 2 of em or a single 14" - 16" fan. But put simply, for ease of fitment two 10" DC fans will keep you more than happy!!
Cheers
Keith
A bit off topic again, the 179 in my UC's nothing hardcore really, XU-1 Bathurst cam, 350 Holley, 10:1 comp, 4speed, 3.08:1 single spinner, run in full street trim (101.6rwkW)... She hoots along, but the 6 is going to make way for an 8 in december... should go faster yet!! I have SU's at home, but never got around to fitting them up...
Back on topic, just get what you can afford if you dont want to fork out!! If your gonna keep the belt fan on, i'd suggest a single 10" thermo. If your gonna take it off, get 2 of em or a single 14" - 16" fan. But put simply, for ease of fitment two 10" DC fans will keep you more than happy!!
Cheers
Keith
#16
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 28 September 2006 - 03:25 AM
Craig A, this is what you said:
There is definitely some validity in the above for low power electric fans(However, have seen where au fans used in a shroud pull down the temp of a motor at 100kmh)
However, I never seen any objective evidence to support this concerning engine fans(yes I realise it is a popular belief), and in fact have only observed to the contrary, removing engine fans making them run hotter at speed(measuring temp of water exiting radiator). Do you have any firm evidence to support your statement Craig?
If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better.
There is definitely some validity in the above for low power electric fans(However, have seen where au fans used in a shroud pull down the temp of a motor at 100kmh)
However, I never seen any objective evidence to support this concerning engine fans(yes I realise it is a popular belief), and in fact have only observed to the contrary, removing engine fans making them run hotter at speed(measuring temp of water exiting radiator). Do you have any firm evidence to support your statement Craig?
Edited by devilsadvocate, 28 September 2006 - 03:37 AM.
#17
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Posted 28 September 2006 - 04:36 AM
Just to clarify the above, typically in most applications a change in operating temp(thermostat temp) of the engine at speed without an engine fan wont be observed as the ram air is able to remove more than enough heat from the radiator to maintain thermostat temp.
It is only when the ram air is unable to do this alone that the additional effect of engine fan can be seen or if the temp of the water exiting the radiator is compared in systems that have plenty of capacity and maintain constant thermostat temp.
It is only when the ram air is unable to do this alone that the additional effect of engine fan can be seen or if the temp of the water exiting the radiator is compared in systems that have plenty of capacity and maintain constant thermostat temp.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 28 September 2006 - 04:38 AM.
#18
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 01:37 AM
Devils,
I only ever switch my thermofans on at 80deg C - which means while i'm driving around Townsville, they stay off unless i come to a set of traffic lights!! Anything below 40km/h is not enough to keep the car cool without the fans running. And on the highway i never need them (i keep an eye on the temp gauge all the time)!! Which is what you've just said above!!
When i went to Brisbane earlier this year i negotiated the hot hot hot traffic with no worries about the heat, once i hit the highway the fans went off again!!
Cheers
Keith
I only ever switch my thermofans on at 80deg C - which means while i'm driving around Townsville, they stay off unless i come to a set of traffic lights!! Anything below 40km/h is not enough to keep the car cool without the fans running. And on the highway i never need them (i keep an eye on the temp gauge all the time)!! Which is what you've just said above!!
When i went to Brisbane earlier this year i negotiated the hot hot hot traffic with no worries about the heat, once i hit the highway the fans went off again!!
Cheers
Keith
#19
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 06:35 AM
Keithy, my posts ^ were in response to CraigA's claim that using an electric fan or engine fan at speed is going to raise temperatures.........are you in someway making comment on that...........have you noticed that switching on the electric fans will make it run hotter on the highway.
I used to run 2 x 12in DC fans on my torrie and found that their effect was near unmeasurable(monitoring temp at bottom hose) when used on the highway, adding another one made no difference either.
I used to run 2 x 12in DC fans on my torrie and found that their effect was near unmeasurable(monitoring temp at bottom hose) when used on the highway, adding another one made no difference either.
#20
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 09:37 AM
I've heard this claim. It was said that the electric fans are forming a blockage at speed because they dont run fast enough and cant be forced too with airflow.If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better.
I actually heard of someone encountering this, he fixed by removing one of his twin fans. This might just be a problem with cheap or second hand fans with rattly bearings preventing them from spinning up.
I've had no probs with twin elec on the stockcar or the V8 road car.
#21
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:55 AM
Dear Mr. Advocate,
Have you published a scientific report on this phenomenon, or is your evidence anecdotal, like mine?
It makes reasonable sense to me that by placing an obstruction of any sort in front of the radiator you will impede airflow and therefore limit the transfer of heat from the radiator to the surrounding air. But maybe your publish scientific experiments will disprove this theory.
I look forward to reading your thesis.
Cheers,
Craig (Grad. Dip. Sci. (Physics) Syd UNI) :finger:
Have you published a scientific report on this phenomenon, or is your evidence anecdotal, like mine?
It makes reasonable sense to me that by placing an obstruction of any sort in front of the radiator you will impede airflow and therefore limit the transfer of heat from the radiator to the surrounding air. But maybe your publish scientific experiments will disprove this theory.
I look forward to reading your thesis.
Cheers,
Craig (Grad. Dip. Sci. (Physics) Syd UNI) :finger:
#22
_JNR_ATE_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 12:27 PM
Hey guys, i ahve AU twin thermos on my LH, its controlled by a ICE variable themostat switch, the one thathas a prob in the top rad hose.
Im looking for the same switch that can be mounted in the manifold?
I went to Repco and they showed me the same thing as the ICE switch, any other places?
Cheers
JNR_ATE
Im looking for the same switch that can be mounted in the manifold?
I went to Repco and they showed me the same thing as the ICE switch, any other places?
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#23
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 07:23 PM
Hey guys, i wasnt trying to start an argument at all, i was agreeing with Devils, i have driven 1000's of highway kms witht the thermo's, switching them on at 100km/h or thereabouts makes no difference either up or down in temperature!
My theory is - they cant spin fast enough to push anymore air in, but they do not block airflow... They spin freely with the wind going through them!
Argument over!!
Cheerio
Keithy
My theory is - they cant spin fast enough to push anymore air in, but they do not block airflow... They spin freely with the wind going through them!
Argument over!!
Cheerio
Keithy
#24
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 08:46 PM
Nice theory but airflow and micropressure zones are not that simple.
No probs around town only at highway speeds. I don't claim to know all about airflows either but the quotes true.
I actually heard of someone encountering this, he fixed by removing one of his twin fans.
No probs around town only at highway speeds. I don't claim to know all about airflows either but the quotes true.
#25
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 08:56 PM
Craig, attacking me doesnt validate your claims, put some evidence forward......too many myths get bandied around on this topic.
That is entirely reasonable, however, a fast spinning fan does not always qualify as an obstruction.It makes reasonable sense to me that by placing an obstruction of any sort in front of the radiator you will impede airflow and therefore limit the transfer of heat from the radiator to the surrounding air.
Your earlier post:
also refers to engine fans does it not?If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better.
My direct measurements of the temp of water exiting the radiator(thermocouple connected to data logger), show that the engine fan has a significant effect at speed as well(I think its reasonable to assume from this its because its pulling more air through the radiator) not creating a blockage(as has become popular myth), my testing only covered up to 120kmh with a 3000rpm limited clutch fan......so its open to theories on what happens at higher speed than this.
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