Too right, but as I suggest a fan with dud bearings will spin slower.
Given that the fan is spinning slower than the oncoming airflow can you then imagine the flow striking the leading edge of the fan blade and creating a high pressure zone. Towards the center of the fan this high pressure zone could extend inbetween the blades making the center of the fan do nothing in its own spinning high pressure vortex.
Its just a suggestion.
Maybe its one for the mythbusters?
Thermo Fan for an LC 6 cyl
Started by
_LC2250_
, Sep 25 2006 03:28 PM
36 replies to this topic
#27
_CraigA_
_CraigA_
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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:43 PM
Dear Mr Advocate,
I'm not sure I was 'attacking' you, I was asking you to validate your claims - exactly as you have asked me to do.
I can have the guys in the lab have a look at this if you want, but you say have already completed and documented your theories. Are you able to supply full wrritten and validated results of your tests?
In fact as you accept I'm not exactly referring to the fan blades, I'm referring to the fan assembly as a whole. Surely the front mounting of a cooling fan must impede air flow to an area of the radiator? Maybe you have a different viewpoint, and can put some validated evidence forward.
Best of luck with your oven project
Cheers,
Craig.
(bring on mythbusters ;-))
I'm not sure I was 'attacking' you, I was asking you to validate your claims - exactly as you have asked me to do.
I can have the guys in the lab have a look at this if you want, but you say have already completed and documented your theories. Are you able to supply full wrritten and validated results of your tests?
In fact as you accept I'm not exactly referring to the fan blades, I'm referring to the fan assembly as a whole. Surely the front mounting of a cooling fan must impede air flow to an area of the radiator? Maybe you have a different viewpoint, and can put some validated evidence forward.
Best of luck with your oven project
Cheers,
Craig.
(bring on mythbusters ;-))
Edited by CraigA, 29 September 2006 - 10:45 PM.
#28
_devilsadvocate_
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 03:07 AM
I think you are "clutching" at straws there Craig, sure the centre of a fan doesnt pull any air........what is behind the centre of an engine fan anyway?............ all these years they have been making too much radiator, they could just have blanked off a circle in the middle........for goodness sake!In fact as you accept I'm not exactly referring to the fan blades, I'm referring to the fan assembly as a whole. Surely the front mounting of a cooling fan must impede air flow to an area of the radiator? Maybe you have a different viewpoint, and can put some validated evidence forward.
There is nothing wrong with posting information you have heard, or suspect is correct..........but state that when you post..........then you wont perhaps feel obliged to go down the path of futile "face saving" when it is challenged.
Ive described my basic test, thermocouples arent influenced by hype, myths or popular opinion, if you feel there is something wrong in the methodology or want more details(be specific)........I wont be offended and would/have asked the same, ..........I could prattle on about the charateristics of a clutch fan at different temps/drive speeds and the calibration method used on the stroboscope used to measure the rotation rate....... however, Im sure most people wont be interested.
If you feel Im falsifying the result.......cant do much about that...........but do ask yourself why I would be doing so and why I bothered to go to the trouble of testing this is the first place........
When you have done, or seen the results of basic tests that are contrary to this.......let's hear it too, Im more interested in knowledge and would prefer to be proved wrong rather than forever ignorant.
#29
TerrA LX
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 03:23 AM
Craig (Grad. Dip. Sci. (Physics) Syd UNI) :finger: [/QUOTE]
my 5 year old son asks why he is waving.
he likes the one that is laughing >
my 5 year old son asks why he is waving.
he likes the one that is laughing >
Edited by ALX76, 30 September 2006 - 03:23 AM.
#30
_CraigA_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 08:58 AM
Dear Mr Advocate,
I'm sure you would agree that the best way to measure the point at hand is not to measure the coolant temperature, as ultimately it relies on many other factors including ethylene glycol concentration, radiator pressure, water pump condition, even engine timing and fuel mixture, but to measure the air pressure in front of the fan, behind the fan. and then behind the radiator. Measurement of these three factors will determine if the fan assembly is in fact impeding airflow, if so then it will follow that it would (or could) affect engine coolant temperatures, which could be measured using your thermocouple/data logging tool, but possibly only under specific conditions that your tests may have not taken into account.
Apologies if it seems I am claiming you 'falsified' your test results, this is not what I'm saying at all. You obviously have gone to some effort to test. I admire your efforts, and as I said I would be more than happy for you to supply test results to me via private message so as not to bore others who may not be interested. I certainly am.
Cheers,
Craig.
I'm sure you would agree that the best way to measure the point at hand is not to measure the coolant temperature, as ultimately it relies on many other factors including ethylene glycol concentration, radiator pressure, water pump condition, even engine timing and fuel mixture, but to measure the air pressure in front of the fan, behind the fan. and then behind the radiator. Measurement of these three factors will determine if the fan assembly is in fact impeding airflow, if so then it will follow that it would (or could) affect engine coolant temperatures, which could be measured using your thermocouple/data logging tool, but possibly only under specific conditions that your tests may have not taken into account.
Apologies if it seems I am claiming you 'falsified' your test results, this is not what I'm saying at all. You obviously have gone to some effort to test. I admire your efforts, and as I said I would be more than happy for you to supply test results to me via private message so as not to bore others who may not be interested. I certainly am.
Cheers,
Craig.
Edited by CraigA, 30 September 2006 - 08:58 AM.
#31
_Aquarius - LC_
_Aquarius - LC_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 12:32 PM
LC2250,
You asked about thermo's for your LC, I am running 2 10" Auto Air
[curved blade design] on mine, they fit perfectly in front of rad.
Very happy with them , NO probs at any speed.
You asked about thermo's for your LC, I am running 2 10" Auto Air
[curved blade design] on mine, they fit perfectly in front of rad.
Very happy with them , NO probs at any speed.
#32
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 07:05 PM
^I'm with Aquarius - LC.... We have no need to prove facts gents!! I took the chance and put two on my rig, drove it to brissy and back (3000km) and nary a drama. That's my Australian Story...
Keith
Keith
#33
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 07:21 PM
CraigI'm sure you would agree that the best way to measure the point at hand is not to measure the coolant temperature.
This was what you originally claimed:
I have stated I have measured direct evidence to the contrary, the coolant temperature will not increase , but decrease when an engine fan is added at speed. Now I have to measure air pressure at the front of the radiator to be able to say this? I dont really care if the car runs cooler for some other reason than more air going through the radiator when an engine fan is added, it does. It would be interesting to see how you would explain the coolant temp dropping by adding an engine fan if it didnt pull more air through......If it gets hot on the move adding a bigger and/or electric fan is going to make things worse not better.
You have attempted to draw some hyperbole on other things that effect water temperature(that were kept as controlled variables in my testing.......no I didnt change the water pump, timing, fuel mixture, % of glycol or anything else tha could affect temp when i tested for this.......ridiculous! )..................... perhaps you'll fool somebody out there.
Clearly Craig admitting that what you wrote could be incorrect is not going to happen, and I dont appreciate the patronising and condescending tone in your posts.
I wont be responding to any of your future posts in this topic.
#34
_CraigA_
_CraigA_
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Posted 30 September 2006 - 08:13 PM
I wont be responding to any of your future posts in this topic.
Gee and I was having so much fun.................
#35
mikew
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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:59 PM
Anyone with a 6cyl LC/LJ will know that there is precious little space between the water pump shaft and the radiator.
Has anyone here successfully mounted a clutch fan, or electric fans behind the radiator?????
If yes, what did you use and how did you do it??
Mike
Has anyone here successfully mounted a clutch fan, or electric fans behind the radiator?????
If yes, what did you use and how did you do it??
Mike
#36
_LC2250_
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Posted 05 October 2006 - 12:57 AM
Been in Sydney last few days ... lots has happened in this topic since then!
I appreciate everyones enthusiasm and I think it has been made fairly clear that thermos are most effective at idle but still may or may not serve some purpose at speeds (from what I gather here).
I would be interested in picking up a cheap clutch fan but as mikew has just pointed out there is little to no extra room between the fan and the radiator...
These past few hot days have already seemed to take their toll on the little LC with the usual running temperature under any condition of driving at about 80-82 but now it's sitting closer to 90-95 ... I'd prefer it to be lower on said hot days.
7 blade clutch fan would be ideal ... that coupled with maybe a single thermo fan.
If I can't keep the temperature that I feared would go high on these warmer days down I think I might need to look at alternatives like maybe a bigger radiator ... who knows.
So finally, has anyone sucessfuly mounted said clutch fan on an LC? it seems like a sensible option considering they were so popular for a number of years.
Cheers
-Al
I appreciate everyones enthusiasm and I think it has been made fairly clear that thermos are most effective at idle but still may or may not serve some purpose at speeds (from what I gather here).
I would be interested in picking up a cheap clutch fan but as mikew has just pointed out there is little to no extra room between the fan and the radiator...
These past few hot days have already seemed to take their toll on the little LC with the usual running temperature under any condition of driving at about 80-82 but now it's sitting closer to 90-95 ... I'd prefer it to be lower on said hot days.
7 blade clutch fan would be ideal ... that coupled with maybe a single thermo fan.
If I can't keep the temperature that I feared would go high on these warmer days down I think I might need to look at alternatives like maybe a bigger radiator ... who knows.
So finally, has anyone sucessfuly mounted said clutch fan on an LC? it seems like a sensible option considering they were so popular for a number of years.
Cheers
-Al
Edited by LC2250, 05 October 2006 - 12:57 AM.
#37
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 05 October 2006 - 06:30 AM
Dont know how much room there is in the LC, but understand it is tight.
The clutch fan is 7.8cm in total depth, that is you need at least that between face of water pump pulley and radiator core. The actual clutch unit is the piece that extends furthest, the fan blades at the forward and rearward tips actually are ~1.5cm inside the 7.8cm dimensions, so the blades should clear the top tank unless the top tank overhangs the core by more than 1.5cm. I dont imagine there would be clearance issues at the engine end with alternator or timing pulley, but should check that out too.
I do remember Dr Terry talking about fitting aircon units to Lc/j's and no doubt the four blade fan had to go...........might be worth giving him a pm as he will be very familiar with what should fit in there. There are other options such as fixed 6 blade fans that were fittted to Holdens, but they would be noisy.
The clutch fan is 7.8cm in total depth, that is you need at least that between face of water pump pulley and radiator core. The actual clutch unit is the piece that extends furthest, the fan blades at the forward and rearward tips actually are ~1.5cm inside the 7.8cm dimensions, so the blades should clear the top tank unless the top tank overhangs the core by more than 1.5cm. I dont imagine there would be clearance issues at the engine end with alternator or timing pulley, but should check that out too.
I do remember Dr Terry talking about fitting aircon units to Lc/j's and no doubt the four blade fan had to go...........might be worth giving him a pm as he will be very familiar with what should fit in there. There are other options such as fixed 6 blade fans that were fittted to Holdens, but they would be noisy.
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