93 replies to this topic

[orangeLJ]

im in agreeance with what has been said, why only ban P plate drivers? three years or 10 years experience, if you havent driven a "high powered car" then you are in theory as dangerous as the next bloke.

And YES of course it is mainly the P plate drivers that are whinging about the laws because IT MAINLY EFFECTS OUR LIVES! people with opens arent affected by the ban are they, as they can drive what they want and when they want, so dont understand the restriction and the problems that come from it. My family has been effected by the restriction, as our BRONCO was a v8 and as is my mums SS commo, sometimes if one of my cars is off the road, i cant get anywhere, or if my old man was working on a car and needed me to go pick something up, i couldnt if the bronco was the only car there (it was his work car). also happened when i started my mechanic apprentiship, couldnt deliver cars/pick cars up so caused trouble.

6 months ago we purchased a new (2nd hand) ute to replace the bronco. We wanted to purchase a V8 simply for the extra power to tow the caravan and all the other crap we have to tow (cars on car trailers etc) but we had to purchase a V6 simply because of the restriction.

im sure there are numerous other familys who have been effected by the restriction, my folks think it is crap, and most people i talk to so aswell. (mechanics, my nan and pa, other relos)

And my mate got fined for wearing a helmet whilst driving on the road as it supposedly is a visionary impediment. wasnt a massive fine but was over 100 bucks.

Mikenofx, more open holders then P platers are accustomed to the tactics you talk about. playing with the CD player, stopping the baby from crying, putting on makeup, eating breakfast on the freeway. stop generalising about the p-platers.

Roll cages in all cars. there is another thing that would keep us safer, but you have to have a engineers certificate to have one, and sometimes theya re illegal all together.

I say whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Ban one sector of society, then ban them all. And why not have some young people making some rules. There are f*cking dumb bastards making the rules at the moment, simply making re-active decisions, nothing pro-active. and the media doesnt help. Maybe a young head with fresh ideas would make things better.


EDIT- devils, you are aware that your sentence is much like a double negative. ("i cant see nothing"

you stated that a large minority were to blame, what is a large minority? it just seemed a bit odd.

ohh and one more thing, priveledge or right? thats another complete debate that would take abother 5 pages. BUT if it is a priveledge, where is the equality? everyone is supposedly equal in society, then why are restricions placed on one sector of society without an across the board ban?

Edited by orangeLJ, 06 May 2007 - 07:20 PM.

[Joshua]

Why not limit everybody's car to 120km/h?

You shouldn't have a problem with you car being speed limited to 120km/h either?

Josh, I dont know if you read any of the ^......but it sure sounds like you didnt.

Its the large minority of P platers that do the wrong thing that have dire consequences, thats why they have brought in your eyes unfair measures. If I was you I wouldnt air those views too loudly, they might just think its a good idea to have speed limiters for at least p platers.........and how much do you think it might cost YOU to have such a device fitted? $1000, 2000, 4000......?

I don't think that cars should be speed limited.
I think people should just be able to exercise self control, and if they cannot then why should they have a license?
Being able to drive is a privilege not a right.

And, in my opinion, the reason these laws have been in is too make it seem like the goverment was doing something. As they needed to seem as they were doing something because road deaths involving under 20's get more air time by the media.

And any goverment silly enough to make people to put speed limiters in their cars and make them pay for them are asking not to return to goverment.

[orangeLJ]

DA- You speak of youth from such an alienated viewpoint. are you to say once i hit 20 i am less likeley to speed, drive dangerously and alike? because you and i both know, no matter how much you wish to deny it, that its absolute bullshit. In 12 months when i get my opens, i will most likely be more tempted to speed as i have more points and dont have a P plate on the back window, therefore i am less likely to get noticed.

I am yet to discover what state you live in, or if you have children (and i doubt i ever will) and i attribute your negligence of the issue to the fact you arent in any way connected with the topic.

When i began as an apprentice mechanic, my boss was a bit unwilling to put me on based on the fact i could not drive a V8 and that only 3 exemptions have been given out in NSW! 3! but he was a family friend and let it go. My family business car, was the Bronco, which had been in my old mans possesion for 20 years.
the SS i learnt to drive in. (and i often had some fun with my step dad and my mum, learning what a 250kw car, with traction control turned off, in the wet. could do. all in the car park at our business. )

i wouldnt let most 30 year olds play with a loaded weapon either. Most of those who overtake me speeding on the free-way or around town are older people. the wankers who cut you off and have road rage are OLDER PEOPLE (yes i am generalising about the majority of my experience and that of 19 years riding with relos and parents and friends)

Ever heard of a midlife crisis? those guys and girls are generally worse then young blokes.

and the last point, is that in reply to your statement regarding the amount of P platers against the bans. how does this in any way imply that they are a good idea? you say opinion has no basis, this is solely your opinion, and what basis does it have?

And where is the proof that the restrictions have done anything? recently there have been numerous deaths in smaller cars, 6 cylinder falcons and commodores, up north there was lots jsut before the new year ALL IN SMALLER Front WD cars.

If someone can provide logical, sturdy evidence that restrictions have done anything other then cost people jobs, and incovenience families then i will eat my words. Im not talking one biased survey, i mean full across the board proof that they have done anything at all.

sorry one last thing-
"Why does anyone need any special training or experience to drive a high powered car?"

devils you just poked a hole in the whole argument of the government. They claim to have imposed the bans to stop "inexperienced" drivers from getting behind the wheel of high powered vehichles.

to quote another experience, this one quite recent, i have a friend, he is 27 (and getting married in three weeks ) he has a VN calais, really nice car, 5ltr V8 motor. He recently got said car supercharged, and even he said, that the whole car changes, to put your foot down the same amount as would usually be "normal acceleration" now contorts the car sideways and in the wet, it is basically borderline crazy. Now put any middle aged person behind the wheel of that car, and see what happens. same thing with a normal gen3. from someone who has driven 4s and 6s. there is a certain level of respect for the power that is needed. obviously something you dont and wont understand.


a 29 year old person whom is egged on enough is just as stupid as an 18 year old under the same circumstances. some times devils your ignorance astounds me. Empathy is a good word. look it up sometime. also might want to look up compassion and understanding, all very similar terms, and all things are something you could take onboard.

A man who shows so much intelligence regarding some issues, could do to show some emotional intelligence in others. look up that term also.

maybe we should introduce a personallity test for all drivers to determine those who are more likely to take risks and drive dangerous. they do them for pre-employment. something like a 16 factor personality test, or three factor theory. there are numerous tests that messure your ability to follow rules, take risks, do dangerous things.

[MRLXSS]

Good to see you have some passion on the issue Orangelj,

But the truth is, us as P platers will probably never be able to do anything about it... The Day Parliament has a few 19-20yos in there, is the day that something might actually happen. We can boycott and protest all we like, but the truth is anyone off there P plates and are not effected think that it is a good idea for us to drive low powered vehicles. Maybe its time to just suck it up and worry about something else...

You are lucky up in NSW etc, you get your licence at 17 and are off your P's by the time you are 20. We down here in Vic, don't get our license until we are 18 and have to have them until we are 21, so remember... there is always someone worse of than you... i only have a few more months b4 i can loose the Red P plates from the windows.

List of things i cant wait for!

Have a 308 + powered Torana!
Be able to tow a tandem trailer!
Be able to go have a quiet beer or two and be able to drive home. 0.00 sucks! But its the law and a good one at that!

[orangeLJ]

Devils, cars do not have poor throttle control. People have poor throttle control. people like my mum. i am always on her about he throttle control. and she drives what one would deem a high powered car.

[Heath]

My mum has poor throttle control as well. She'd be in a real mess if someone chucked her in a 500HP RWD car with 205s on the back.

Sean, the thing that annoys me about the law is that they are not allowed "Performance Modifications", so if I get a really bad cop... there ain't much I can do. I've already got a huge cam lined up... it ain't gonna be a disguiseable motor.

Yes experience comes with time... most of the time. But experience also comes a lot quicker to some people than it does to others. I don't think my mum would have learnt anything to do with driving since she was in her low/mid 20s. However, in her front wheel drive 132kW boat, which never exceeds 100km/h unless I'm behind the wheel, that's fine. Because she's used to it and she only has to drive in environments that require like no driving ability at all, just some sense of judgement and maturity.

[orangeLJ]

the example of the V8 supercar drivers is invalid. who has had the most accidents? i dont know the statistics, but i must say, its not just the young guys.

and 20 years experience, define this? does 20 years experience entail anything in particular or simply 20 years of experience driving around town? how much can you possibly experience in 20 years that you wouldnt in say 5 or 10? there is only so much that can happen on the road. there is a limit to the amount of situations one person will encounter. the road rules are simple enough are they not? so they are learnt in the first year, and the years after that, say to about the 5th year of driving would theoretically contain other experiences such as wet driving, aquaplaning, crash avoidance etc. the more frequent one drives the quicker the experience yould be gained. (say an average person drives 2 to 3 hours a day, so 30x2x12= 720 hours per year. so over a five year period they would amass 3600 hours behind the wheel. so if i for example spend on average 4 hours behind the wheel a day, i would amass the same experience in a 2.5 year period.) im not sure if that really had any purpose... i kind of went off on a tangent.

some people go their whole driving career without being put in a hard braking situaton, such as Devils. so, in an emergency situation they are less experienced are they not? as they cannot possibly (under the terms given by devils and others) know the effects of hard braking, turning or the simple methods that avoid a crash.


we are all victims of peer pressure whether you like to admit it or not. If you are in a situation with long term friends or a female variety, chances are a 29 year old would react as an 18 year old would. I know for a fact there are studies into the way people react to peer pressure, and they have shown that we all suffer the same pre-emptive confliction. We all wish to "fit-in" again, no matter how much we wish to deny it. and often we will do something uncharacteristic due to this complex.

im off to go thru my shit and see if i can find where i read that. but i know i read it somewhere!

[Heath]

I wasnt really comparing 20 years experience to 5 or 10. I was comparing it to 0-1 year experience.

Umm... even I've had almost a year of regular (four or more times a week) driving on busy roads. And I don't even have my liscence. Are we talking about people who have just been put in a car? Or P platers?

Anyone on the roads should have had at least a year of experience... Or am I somehow missing the point?

[Heath]

Well yeah I don't make up hours. First day I had my L's, I was driving on Canterbury Rd at 9pm in the rain. But as you said, that doesn't apply for everyone.

In Vic you need 120 hours. I think you only need them for 6 months as well but they allow two years (between 16 and 18) for you to be on your L's for. It is absurd to not make the most of that oppurtunity.