well........what do ya's reckon??
third (or more) v8 supercar manufacturer
Started by
_willo_
, Jun 03 2008 01:26 AM
51 replies to this topic
#2
_mervex_
_mervex_
-
- Guests
Posted 02 August 2008 - 02:57 PM
and who else builds a V8 car in Australia???? thats in the official rulebook!!
#3
_gtrtorana_
_gtrtorana_
-
- Guests
Posted 02 August 2008 - 11:07 PM
Introducing another manufacturer maybe a way of making the racing a little more intersting as it seems pretty boring at the moment (or is it just me?) I love the idea of Red vs Blue but if another manufacture was thrown in the mix, it may make things more interesting. My 2 cents.
#4
LX2DR
View Garage
-
- Members
-
- 1,763 posts
Forum Fixture
- Name:Paul
- Location:Melbourne
- Joined: 21-November 05
View Garage
Posted 02 August 2008 - 11:33 PM
Yes, another manufacturer would prefer non-rice though.
Do realize that's not an easy,
Chrysler? Gotta love a big Hemi on song.
Would lift the marquee and possible sales to justify their participation & viability.
Do realize that's not an easy,
Chrysler? Gotta love a big Hemi on song.
Would lift the marquee and possible sales to justify their participation & viability.
Edited by LX2DR, 02 August 2008 - 11:35 PM.
#5
rodomo
-
- Members
-
- 18,001 posts
To advertise here, call 13TORANA
- Name:R - O - B Dammit!
- Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
- Joined: 10-December 05
Posted 03 August 2008 - 02:08 AM
I'm tipping Toyota.
During todays telecast, there was an "Aussie race car" (motor bike powered midgets) race and they mentioned that there will soon be a Toyota Aurion body available.
Feeling the waters no doubt?
During todays telecast, there was an "Aussie race car" (motor bike powered midgets) race and they mentioned that there will soon be a Toyota Aurion body available.
Feeling the waters no doubt?
#6
_ronaldoredsox_
_ronaldoredsox_
-
- Guests
Posted 03 August 2008 - 09:04 AM
Bring on No. 3. My guess is Toyota. Who else could it possibly be. They have a V8 already. Plus good motor sport creds. I am finding V8 racing rather boring now. A procession that has little overtaking and races won or lost in the pits. Somehow, I can't stay in front of the tele for it. Rather go and play with a Torrie!!!!! R
#7
GML-31
-
- Members
-
- 5,239 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Kev
- Location:Highland Park
- Car:too many
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 03 August 2008 - 09:28 AM
I say scrap the bastards and bring back group C with real cars not skins on chassis... people are sick of them because they do not portait the real cars we drive. That way we open the door for Chrysler to enter as well
#8
_moot_
_moot_
-
- Guests
Posted 03 August 2008 - 10:59 AM
I say scrap the bastards and bring back group C with real cars not skins on chassis... people are sick of them because they do not portait the real cars we drive. That way we open the door for Chrysler to enter as well
^^^ couldnt agree more
#9
_WOZ_
_WOZ_
-
- Guests
Posted 03 August 2008 - 10:59 AM
i aggree bring back group c
if not 3 is good for me.
it would be good for comp
if not 3 is good for me.
it would be good for comp
#10
_AGGRO_
_AGGRO_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:33 AM
I agree, the sport needs something new to liven it up and make it interesting again. There are plenty of manufacturers that could do it, nissan, toyota, chrysler, mitsubishi. It doesn't matter if they have a v8 or not cause they will have to develop a 5 litre just for this sport.
But i say as well bring back group c - or at least international group a!
But i say as well bring back group c - or at least international group a!
#11
MRLXSS
-
- Members
-
- 12,396 posts
The Render Garage
- Name:Matt
- Location:Upwey, Melbourne
- Car:355 LX Hatchback, DeLorean DMC-12, LX SS Hatch, VY Cross8 Crewman
- Joined: 09-November 05
Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:14 AM
Yeah, I can't be bothered watching the V8's anymore... I would prefer to watch someone play a video game than watch the V8's... Bring Back Group C!! Or mainly just get the big sponsors and TV to televise group C and get money into it!
#12
orangeLJ
-
- Members
-
- 10,259 posts
Yes, yes I do post alot!
- Joined: 02-May 06
Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:15 AM
a third competitor wouldnt change anything really.
would just be a body style (much like the aussie race cars) the engine package would be modified to be the same as H&F and the aero package would have the same thing.
would just be a body style (much like the aussie race cars) the engine package would be modified to be the same as H&F and the aero package would have the same thing.
#13
_HatchmanSS76_
_HatchmanSS76_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:19 AM
A lot on this forum give the impression they find the current V8 Supercar racing boring and sugest going back to the good old days of Group C race racing.
I think the longer the time passes, the better Group C racing was. I love watching the DVD's of the old Group C races and watching the Group C's running around now as it brings back good memories. But as a race car they were expensive to run and very unreliable so only an small handfull of teams were able to throw dollars at the cars. There were so many polictical issues with CAMS allowing compenets to make cars more competative. The whole idea of that was to have some sort of even ground for all the different makes to compet on but didn't really work. The Group A formula tried to do that on an international scale and failed misserably as the Aussies were the only ones that played by the rules. The Group A erra stuffed tin top racing in this country as no one was interested in 4 bangers wheezing all day in this country. Hence a return to good old V8 racing between the two makes which is what the public wanted. The evolution of the cars resulted in what we see today. Both make of cars made to a blue print to race on even terms as crowds will leave if one make is dominating over the other. For race cars, todays V8 Supercars are quite reliable and with the blue print build makes them very even. This has caused a problem with the follow the leader racing we see these days. To introduce another manufacturer will only generate short term intrest and I'm not sure how many will follow any make in large numbers be it Chrysler, Toyota or Nissan just to name a few.
I think the answer is to remove all the electronic gadgetry and in car adjustments off the cars.
Remove live race data car to garage feed, the driver has to make decissions based on the instruments in front of him (control that to the basics, Revs, fluid temps etc). Let them plug the lap top in at the end of a race to get what ever data they need.
Remove incar roll bar/ roll center adjustments. The driver has to go with what ever is setup at the start of a race and adjustments can only be made during pit stops.
Keep the incar brake bias adjustment but as in first point it has to be a driver decission (no car to garage data streaming to make to call).
Let the driver talk to the pit via two way but all decissions are made on driver feel not electronic data.
Keep the compulsary pit stops but only have one guy on either side of the car. The guy that takes a wheel off has to put the next one on.
I'd keep the project blue print in aim to have parady between the cars. I think by cutting out the electronic driving of cars from the pits will lead to more guess work with pit crew setup and driver feel interaction. In therory that should spread the feild a bit more with car speed which breaks up the follow the leader racing. All the above won't affect the reliability of the cars greatly and will reduce running costs of teams which is vital if the catagorey is to survive.
Improved Production is the closeset thing currently to Group C racing so if you like to see many makes racing against each other than go watch that.
I think the longer the time passes, the better Group C racing was. I love watching the DVD's of the old Group C races and watching the Group C's running around now as it brings back good memories. But as a race car they were expensive to run and very unreliable so only an small handfull of teams were able to throw dollars at the cars. There were so many polictical issues with CAMS allowing compenets to make cars more competative. The whole idea of that was to have some sort of even ground for all the different makes to compet on but didn't really work. The Group A formula tried to do that on an international scale and failed misserably as the Aussies were the only ones that played by the rules. The Group A erra stuffed tin top racing in this country as no one was interested in 4 bangers wheezing all day in this country. Hence a return to good old V8 racing between the two makes which is what the public wanted. The evolution of the cars resulted in what we see today. Both make of cars made to a blue print to race on even terms as crowds will leave if one make is dominating over the other. For race cars, todays V8 Supercars are quite reliable and with the blue print build makes them very even. This has caused a problem with the follow the leader racing we see these days. To introduce another manufacturer will only generate short term intrest and I'm not sure how many will follow any make in large numbers be it Chrysler, Toyota or Nissan just to name a few.
I think the answer is to remove all the electronic gadgetry and in car adjustments off the cars.
Remove live race data car to garage feed, the driver has to make decissions based on the instruments in front of him (control that to the basics, Revs, fluid temps etc). Let them plug the lap top in at the end of a race to get what ever data they need.
Remove incar roll bar/ roll center adjustments. The driver has to go with what ever is setup at the start of a race and adjustments can only be made during pit stops.
Keep the incar brake bias adjustment but as in first point it has to be a driver decission (no car to garage data streaming to make to call).
Let the driver talk to the pit via two way but all decissions are made on driver feel not electronic data.
Keep the compulsary pit stops but only have one guy on either side of the car. The guy that takes a wheel off has to put the next one on.
I'd keep the project blue print in aim to have parady between the cars. I think by cutting out the electronic driving of cars from the pits will lead to more guess work with pit crew setup and driver feel interaction. In therory that should spread the feild a bit more with car speed which breaks up the follow the leader racing. All the above won't affect the reliability of the cars greatly and will reduce running costs of teams which is vital if the catagorey is to survive.
Improved Production is the closeset thing currently to Group C racing so if you like to see many makes racing against each other than go watch that.
#14
enderwigginau
-
- Moderators
-
- 2,000,527 posts
Admin Wrangler
- Name:Grant
- Location:Brisneyland
- Car:76 LX Sedan, 4 seater
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 04 August 2008 - 01:27 PM
Toyota and Mitsu both had some cars (non-production) with Holden 5L V8s and this was seen as trialling for Supercars, but it all fell by the wayside.
The Mitsubishu 380 was to come out as a 500, I was led to believe, until it got the chop. Check out the size and shape - designed as a direct competitor.
As Chrysler bring more of their cars out in Oz, we may be able to slip one of the new four door Chargers in. Mmmmm, hemi.
As Chevy bring more of their own badged cars out in Oz, we could hope for something similar.
Production Car racing seems to be dying here.
Grant..
The Mitsubishu 380 was to come out as a 500, I was led to believe, until it got the chop. Check out the size and shape - designed as a direct competitor.
As Chrysler bring more of their cars out in Oz, we may be able to slip one of the new four door Chargers in. Mmmmm, hemi.
As Chevy bring more of their own badged cars out in Oz, we could hope for something similar.
Production Car racing seems to be dying here.
Grant..
#15
micklx
-
- Members
-
- 1,785 posts
Forum Fixture
- Name:Mick
- Location:Frankston South
- Joined: 18-November 05
Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:02 PM
I completely agree with what Hatchman said a couple of posts up.
Lets not forget, Group C had its own problems - sure they were great cars, but only a few teams could ever hope to win
I agree with removing all the electronic gadgetry, but I think the biggest thing that makes the current racing boring is the control tyre. If all teams were allowed say one set of softer (faster) tyres per round, and you had to use them, it would introduce different strategies and would make more interesting racing when a car on hard tyres was racing a car on soft tyres. The cars are so even now, of course there won't be much passing, we need some ideas to make the cars have different characteristics at different stages of the race.
Lets hope we see some changes before next season starts. Does anyone know how to get the point across to AVESCO that they need to make some changes fast ? Has anyone got Neil Cromptons mobile number ? We could all bombard him with SMSs !
Lets not forget, Group C had its own problems - sure they were great cars, but only a few teams could ever hope to win
I agree with removing all the electronic gadgetry, but I think the biggest thing that makes the current racing boring is the control tyre. If all teams were allowed say one set of softer (faster) tyres per round, and you had to use them, it would introduce different strategies and would make more interesting racing when a car on hard tyres was racing a car on soft tyres. The cars are so even now, of course there won't be much passing, we need some ideas to make the cars have different characteristics at different stages of the race.
Lets hope we see some changes before next season starts. Does anyone know how to get the point across to AVESCO that they need to make some changes fast ? Has anyone got Neil Cromptons mobile number ? We could all bombard him with SMSs !
#16
_gtrtorana_
_gtrtorana_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:18 PM
Spot on. I have been finding myself watching Nascar rather than watch the Aussie V8's.I am finding V8 racing rather boring now. A procession that has little overtaking and races won or lost in the pits
#17
_Leakey_
_Leakey_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:38 PM
Agree with Kev and all else regards Group C!
Imagine some 300C's other than the pace cars kicking along! Sweet.
Quite a few years back I worked for an Adelaide based company who did all (and still do) of Mitsubishi Australia's Motor Show work
and POS etc. Great relationship with the company. One Christmas they showed us a V8 Magna, with all wheel drive, and another test
hack with rear wheel drive, also an eight. Makes me wonder if they had gone that path and got people in to it via. V8 racing if they
would still be around? Regardless of your opinions on Mitsu's, losing another manufacturer sux. I would love to have seen a Mitsu V8.
Group C - back to the future!
Imagine some 300C's other than the pace cars kicking along! Sweet.
Quite a few years back I worked for an Adelaide based company who did all (and still do) of Mitsubishi Australia's Motor Show work
and POS etc. Great relationship with the company. One Christmas they showed us a V8 Magna, with all wheel drive, and another test
hack with rear wheel drive, also an eight. Makes me wonder if they had gone that path and got people in to it via. V8 racing if they
would still be around? Regardless of your opinions on Mitsu's, losing another manufacturer sux. I would love to have seen a Mitsu V8.
Group C - back to the future!
#18
GML-31
-
- Members
-
- 5,239 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Kev
- Location:Highland Park
- Car:too many
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:03 PM
well if they dont do something soon teams will fold, the cars are too high tech and too bloody expensive
#19
_HatchmanSS76_
_HatchmanSS76_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 August 2008 - 11:42 AM
well if they dont do something soon teams will fold, the cars are too high tech and too bloody expensive
Thats why I suggested removing all the in car adjustments, electronic gadgetry and live electronic feeds to the pits. The savings there alone will be great.
I like Micklx's idea of allowing some range of tyre choices (soft/hard) as that combined with removing the above will give greater differences in car speeds according to how well it was setup before it went out.
Is the romance of the Group C days, the variety of the cars running against each other or other reasons?
Would everyone still feel the same way if the blue oval was dominant during this period?
#20
_Baronvonrort_
_Baronvonrort_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:30 PM
Adding another manufacturer will not make the racing any better and is a camry winning in nascar?
We line the cars up from fastest to slowest on the grid and then some wonder why the slower cars cannot pass the fastest ones....
As for reducing costs cockpit adjustable sway bars are insignificant and kinda neat in their design so maybe control camshafts and control intake manifolds will cut the cost of engine development and allow some of the holden teams to match HRT/HSV.Kids are using data loggers in Karts these days so i think they are a good thing.Maybe drivers who do not place in the top half of the pointscore should be allocated extra test days to help them get up to pace with driving/adjusting the cars.
What could really improve the racing is doing away with pit stops during races as it shits me to see a wheel nut decide someones finishing position and dont start me on safety cars deciding races.Without pitstops for tyres there will be even more of a premium on getting setup right so car is still fast at the end and there will be a little more slipping and sliding which are really mistakes and hence more passing as drivers struggle with tyres that are no longer working as well.
We do have production car racing for those who like the old group c days and the riceburners do well there.
I recall Mario Andretti being asked at gold coast indy years ago if he preferred the good old days of the 60's/70's and he said no and this is better today as cars are faster/safer and the racing more fun.
We line the cars up from fastest to slowest on the grid and then some wonder why the slower cars cannot pass the fastest ones....
As for reducing costs cockpit adjustable sway bars are insignificant and kinda neat in their design so maybe control camshafts and control intake manifolds will cut the cost of engine development and allow some of the holden teams to match HRT/HSV.Kids are using data loggers in Karts these days so i think they are a good thing.Maybe drivers who do not place in the top half of the pointscore should be allocated extra test days to help them get up to pace with driving/adjusting the cars.
What could really improve the racing is doing away with pit stops during races as it shits me to see a wheel nut decide someones finishing position and dont start me on safety cars deciding races.Without pitstops for tyres there will be even more of a premium on getting setup right so car is still fast at the end and there will be a little more slipping and sliding which are really mistakes and hence more passing as drivers struggle with tyres that are no longer working as well.
We do have production car racing for those who like the old group c days and the riceburners do well there.
I recall Mario Andretti being asked at gold coast indy years ago if he preferred the good old days of the 60's/70's and he said no and this is better today as cars are faster/safer and the racing more fun.
#21
_HatchmanSS76_
_HatchmanSS76_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:16 PM
I thought cam shafts were controlled already and intake was restricted to freedom on the air tumpets only hench why you never see under anyones air box.
#22
orangeLJ
-
- Members
-
- 10,259 posts
Yes, yes I do post alot!
- Joined: 02-May 06
Posted 05 August 2008 - 02:14 PM
I like the idea of removing all the gadgetry.
It shits me that they now can run the sequential shift boxes, where is the skill in that!
Take it back to a grass roots type racing, leave the cars as they are body wise (with the same internals etc) and engines are fine too, but make them use their heads instead of all the electronics to race the cars.
The one man on each side pitstops are a good idea too.
But in all seriousness, who is going to listen to anyone on here?
It shits me that they now can run the sequential shift boxes, where is the skill in that!
Take it back to a grass roots type racing, leave the cars as they are body wise (with the same internals etc) and engines are fine too, but make them use their heads instead of all the electronics to race the cars.
The one man on each side pitstops are a good idea too.
But in all seriousness, who is going to listen to anyone on here?
#23
_AGGRO_
_AGGRO_
-
- Guests
Posted 05 August 2008 - 03:30 PM
I think hatchman and micklx have great ideas! That would make the racing more interesting! Plus also as someone else said, get rid of the pit stops. Takes it back to the drivers more. I remember the best racing a few years back when they were mostly sprint races and they would go hard as start to finish with no stops and they had to manage their tyres during the race cause they got shagged and were all over the track at the end of the race. Hmmm how can we get our thoughts across.
#24
_waratah_
_waratah_
-
- Guests
Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:23 AM
Apparently spectators, tv ratings and sponsorship is very very high for v8 supercars and here we are bored with it!!!!!!! Its quite surreal the amount of females now following this sport.
Me personally id like to see a world governing body for touring car racing that treats all manufacturers fairly no matter where they come from.
that way all sorts of cars can be raced.
yes i know the Europeans have gone a completely different way but it could be turned around
Me personally id like to see a world governing body for touring car racing that treats all manufacturers fairly no matter where they come from.
that way all sorts of cars can be raced.
yes i know the Europeans have gone a completely different way but it could be turned around
#25
_trna76hb_
_trna76hb_
-
- Guests
Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:39 AM
Something needs to change, everyone i talk to say the same "boring".
I dont even watch it anymore, only Bathurst thats all.
Ian
I dont even watch it anymore, only Bathurst thats all.
Ian
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
