as you know Keith i have a 202 with EFI with not too different specs to yours, i know the EFI was a nice boost over the 350 holley it had previously .... all this in mind im gonna throw out 130-140rwhp .....
Rear Wheel Horse Power
Started by
_Keithy's_UC_
, Mar 09 2006 10:24 AM
74 replies to this topic
#27
FastEHHolden
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:37 PM
I'm no fan of the suggestion about a percentage of drivetrain loss...cos if you dyno you car and come up with 200 hp for example....then you swap engine for some firebreathing turbo sucker and you get 400 hp....does that mean your drivetrain loss has doubled?
Does than mean a gearbox behind a 400 hp engine runs twice as hot as one behind a 200 hp engine?
I'm a bit more inclined to take it as a fixed amount...ie the drivetrain knocks 15 hp off your reading.
Does than mean a gearbox behind a 400 hp engine runs twice as hot as one behind a 200 hp engine?
I'm a bit more inclined to take it as a fixed amount...ie the drivetrain knocks 15 hp off your reading.
#28
mrlctorana
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:55 PM
Hey dude, Check out this website,Can a 186 make 200BHP at the flywheel? I don't know, maybe if its worked off it's head
Engine: Holden 6 Cylinder 202
Power: 600 plus
Best ET & MPH: 7.708 @ 168 Willowbank Raceway June 2003
http://www.jzedholde...au/main/car.asp
Of course a 186 can make 200hp at the flywheel, We dont all run to big V8s if we want a little bit of power, If you got the money you can make a lot more than 200HP.
My Guess for you keithy, Bout 155 RWHP, Good on ya mate, Keep them six's alive.
Cheers
Les
#29
Tiny
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:02 PM
Joe Zullo's 6 banger cant be taken as an example... Ive seen this engine and met the man and i tell you.. he cant keep em together! he's hammered more 6 banger parts than i can count... but when it DOES work together... it goes like STINK!
Cheers!
Cheers!
#30
FastEHHolden
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:11 PM
I think the "safe" limit is about 350 hp....after that it starts to seperate.
#31
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:13 PM
Yeah, lol, It' is a little wild... Im just saying it can be done, i've seen a few holden 6's running 10 second passes.
But there are relaible 6's out there putting out reasonable horsepower, for example turboed 6's, A mate drives his LJ with turboed 179 regularly, drives it too and from the drags and runs 11.8's. I have run a best so far of 13.5 in my LC, 202, triple Dellortos, ect, Not sure what it's putting out HP wise but you'd have to think i'd be reasonable for a 202.
Les
But there are relaible 6's out there putting out reasonable horsepower, for example turboed 6's, A mate drives his LJ with turboed 179 regularly, drives it too and from the drags and runs 11.8's. I have run a best so far of 13.5 in my LC, 202, triple Dellortos, ect, Not sure what it's putting out HP wise but you'd have to think i'd be reasonable for a 202.
Les
#32
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:16 PM
im thinking 146 rwhp, but im hoping higher for your sake.
cheers julian
cheers julian
Edited by torana, 14 March 2006 - 03:16 PM.
#33
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:32 PM
Take a look at EZY-10s for turboed 6 cyl! he's got a very nice tough 6 cylinder!
Great guy tough car and he;s figured out his tricks to get them to hang together!
Cheers
Great guy tough car and he;s figured out his tricks to get them to hang together!
Cheers
#34
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 09:55 AM
Mini Update for ya's!!
I'm taking the UC in to get dyno tuned in a couple of days (with the 350 Holley), ill post up the printout for you to see! Here's hoping its a good readout!! That is - if the bills dont pile up too much!! The bloke said that i'd have to bring it in for him to be able to quote me! Thats happening on Friday!
Keith
I'm taking the UC in to get dyno tuned in a couple of days (with the 350 Holley), ill post up the printout for you to see! Here's hoping its a good readout!! That is - if the bills dont pile up too much!! The bloke said that i'd have to bring it in for him to be able to quote me! Thats happening on Friday!
Keith
#35
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:11 PM
Ok guys, its official - its booked in for Tuesday for a dyno tune!! I've been 'ballpark figure' quoted! Not a bad price! He's going to investigate the Holley drama, re-jet it if he has to and then perform 3 power runs!
Like i said - i'll have the dyno printout posted up as soon as i get it!
I'll be getting the triple SU's rebuilt in a few months!
Keith
Like i said - i'll have the dyno printout posted up as soon as i get it!
I'll be getting the triple SU's rebuilt in a few months!
Keith
#36
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 06:15 PM
Wicked, can't wait too see results.
Les
Les
#37
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 02:20 AM
my guess is 156rwhp and goodluck hope all goes well
#38
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Posted 26 March 2006 - 10:27 PM
Cheers fellas! I'm hoping for a good result too! The motor feels strong, ive done my oils (diff, tranny and engine) in preparation for a royal right floggin on the dyno, so we'll see how it goes!!
UP THE UC!!!
Keith
UP THE UC!!!
Keith
#39
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 06:19 PM
Well guys.... It's official! I have the UC back, with the 350 Holley on it still, and while its not the most horsepower, its certainly a good result in anyone's speak!
The average of the three runs was 96.3rwkW (about 130HP in old speak), and the highest of the three runs was 101.2rwkW, so roughly 135HP!!
Here's the average run printout!
It unfortunately doesnt say what rpm its at, but he said he took it up to about 6500rpm, max HP was at 5800rpm, so im pleased about that! But the better news is that there is no longer a flat spot in the carby... He bored out the metering block, fitted 3 times larger jets and replaced the accelerator pump, after fiddling around and setting the timing to 9deg btdc, it was all peachy!
Gimme your thoughts guys!
Keith
The average of the three runs was 96.3rwkW (about 130HP in old speak), and the highest of the three runs was 101.2rwkW, so roughly 135HP!!
Here's the average run printout!
It unfortunately doesnt say what rpm its at, but he said he took it up to about 6500rpm, max HP was at 5800rpm, so im pleased about that! But the better news is that there is no longer a flat spot in the carby... He bored out the metering block, fitted 3 times larger jets and replaced the accelerator pump, after fiddling around and setting the timing to 9deg btdc, it was all peachy!
Gimme your thoughts guys!
Keith
#40
_Aquarius - LC_
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 07:36 PM
Nice result Keith,
It may be a touch less than you thought however 130-135,
rear wheel hp represents one very healthy holden 6.
We r talking reliable, driveable, well manered, normally asp,
no funny gas, real world performance. I've been down this road
with my engine. After 350 holley, i went 465, then tripple su's.
Your gunna love it when your tripple's are on. Expect another 15-20
rwhp. Well done mate!
It may be a touch less than you thought however 130-135,
rear wheel hp represents one very healthy holden 6.
We r talking reliable, driveable, well manered, normally asp,
no funny gas, real world performance. I've been down this road
with my engine. After 350 holley, i went 465, then tripple su's.
Your gunna love it when your tripple's are on. Expect another 15-20
rwhp. Well done mate!
#41
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 07:58 PM
Does I get a gold star? est. 137 RWHP, and no computer program.
Still pretty good for a six banger.
Still pretty good for a six banger.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 28 March 2006 - 07:59 PM.
#42
GML-31
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 08:09 PM
no gold star maybe a yella one though....
#43
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 08:10 PM
^ prolly better than a gold one anyways.
#44
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 08:32 PM
Why isn't there a torque reading as well? That would have been handy, and the scale on the bottom in rpm not km/h.
As a tuning tool it would have also been handy to have a A/F Ratio meter up the exhaust, and maybe a vacuum gauge on the manifold.
Still 135 is not a bad result... esp without the triples
As a tuning tool it would have also been handy to have a A/F Ratio meter up the exhaust, and maybe a vacuum gauge on the manifold.
Still 135 is not a bad result... esp without the triples
#45
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 09:35 PM
Bloke chose the readout without consultation! When i got the quote he said i could have my choice, i asked for HP, but he obviously forgot... Bugger hey!
KM/H down the bottom - 215km/h at end of dyno run - not bad!!
I could get more, but you know what that means... Injection... He told me he'd do it for a carton if i had fuel injection cos he loves it!!
Keith
KM/H down the bottom - 215km/h at end of dyno run - not bad!!
I could get more, but you know what that means... Injection... He told me he'd do it for a carton if i had fuel injection cos he loves it!!
Keith
#46
FastEHHolden
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 11:40 PM
Bummer I hedged my bets and went with 145hp...oh well....I don't think you will get 15-20 hp by going to triples....I'll go 8 extra.
well done BTW
well done BTW
#47
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Posted 28 March 2006 - 11:58 PM
Been here b4? the torque readings they usually give are the torque at the rollers, which only need to be adjusted by knowing the engine rpm.
Can add your own torque and rpm scales by using:
rpm = 16.666.. x kmh x diff ratio/tyre circ
torque(Nm) = power (kW) x9549/rpm
Id be a bit disappointed that you have no data below 100kmh in top gear? (Did you only order for the high end of the scale?
From your graph it looks like torque had just peaked at ~3000rpm, be nice to know what happens around 2000rpm etc.
Anyways, what Id like to know is what qt you can run keeping the same tune as on the dyno and get some real feedback on how well the formula/algorithm for estimated hp from qt times works for your car.
Can add your own torque and rpm scales by using:
rpm = 16.666.. x kmh x diff ratio/tyre circ
torque(Nm) = power (kW) x9549/rpm
Id be a bit disappointed that you have no data below 100kmh in top gear? (Did you only order for the high end of the scale?
From your graph it looks like torque had just peaked at ~3000rpm, be nice to know what happens around 2000rpm etc.
Anyways, what Id like to know is what qt you can run keeping the same tune as on the dyno and get some real feedback on how well the formula/algorithm for estimated hp from qt times works for your car.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 29 March 2006 - 12:05 AM.
#48
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:49 AM
Well there's only one way to find out! "Lock me in for 2 1/2 weeks at the Townsville Dragway Eddie"...
I've organised a gathering at the drags, so the UC will more than likely be running down the 1/4 mile!
Keeping in mind im no longer running a belt driven fan, and only a single carby... I hope i can better the old (official) 14.8 ET. It feels stronger than ever through the whole rev range! I'd agree with the torque being around 3000rpm, under that, she gets up, but not in as much fury as above 3k!!
I'll keep the 96.3kW chart as 'official' for now, although he rekons it broke 101.2kW, but this is apparently the 'average' of the three runs!
I'm disappointed that i couldnt be there to get it on video, would have sounded mad!
Could fuel injection be in the pipeline??? The answer... NO! As much as i would benefit from the power gains of fuel injection, i feel as though i'd be ruining this car's heritage by doing that! There are now 2 options, obviously the first being more feasable.
1. Triple SU's - i have them, the bloke is happy to rebuild them for me and fit/tune them. To fit these carbys i would rip the head off, have it shaved and ported a bit more, possibly get triple valve springs too!
2. 465 Holley 4 barrell - i can easily get my hands on it and a 4bbl manifold, i'd probably get the head ported some more before applying it, but it wouldnt have the wow factor of the triples...
In saying all that, i'm really quite happy with the car as it is now! It's got balls, sounds really beefy, runs so damn smooth, doesnt use oil, looks great and is so easy to work on/tune... Maybe ill keep the SU's as ornaments for a while...
Keith
I've organised a gathering at the drags, so the UC will more than likely be running down the 1/4 mile!
Keeping in mind im no longer running a belt driven fan, and only a single carby... I hope i can better the old (official) 14.8 ET. It feels stronger than ever through the whole rev range! I'd agree with the torque being around 3000rpm, under that, she gets up, but not in as much fury as above 3k!!
I'll keep the 96.3kW chart as 'official' for now, although he rekons it broke 101.2kW, but this is apparently the 'average' of the three runs!
I'm disappointed that i couldnt be there to get it on video, would have sounded mad!
Could fuel injection be in the pipeline??? The answer... NO! As much as i would benefit from the power gains of fuel injection, i feel as though i'd be ruining this car's heritage by doing that! There are now 2 options, obviously the first being more feasable.
1. Triple SU's - i have them, the bloke is happy to rebuild them for me and fit/tune them. To fit these carbys i would rip the head off, have it shaved and ported a bit more, possibly get triple valve springs too!
2. 465 Holley 4 barrell - i can easily get my hands on it and a 4bbl manifold, i'd probably get the head ported some more before applying it, but it wouldnt have the wow factor of the triples...
In saying all that, i'm really quite happy with the car as it is now! It's got balls, sounds really beefy, runs so damn smooth, doesnt use oil, looks great and is so easy to work on/tune... Maybe ill keep the SU's as ornaments for a while...
Keith
#49
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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:49 AM
Triple valve springs? On a Hydraulic cam? I don't think so sonny Jim... If the springs are matched to the cam you have leave them there.1. Triple SU's - i have them, the bloke is happy to rebuild them for me and fit/tune them. To fit these carbys i would rip the head off, have it shaved and ported a bit more, possibly get triple valve springs too!
#50
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:53 AM
Lol, just a thought... If i was chasing heaps of power i would more than likely upgrade the cam too, but again, this may be in a long time - she's plenty quick for now!
Keith
Keith
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