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HEATER not working / Fog

Started by _Courage_ , Apr 28 2009 09:20 PM

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91 replies to this topic

#76 _Courage_

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:28 PM

well interesting night

Went to clean out the thermo housing... one bolt out, two bolt out, third bolt snaps at the head, tears the old gasket :(

get the housing off

Check the snapped bolt, its like a rust old fish hook. Plenty of thread on it its just rusted shut and I can't budge it.

Seriously over this f*cking head. Gonna see if I can get another one.

Oh, there was a heap of shit in all the in lets and outlets - cleaned all them out

Put everything back seems tight but does leak when running (for pretty obvious reasons) have silicon on it ATM.. hope it sets ok (fingers crossed) I'll either tap it on the weekend or head shopping

haven't tested heater yet

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#77 Rockoz

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:42 PM

If it continues to leak a cheap fix is good silastic. Not the crap that most people use.
Best I have ever used is WURTH red silastic. Have seen it seal things up while they were still leaking, and without piling it on.
Second best I have used is PERMATEX blue silastic.
To put it in perspective if I rated these at 9 out of 10, your typical Dow Corning silastic would rate about 2 or 3.

I have used both of the above to effectively seal inlet manifolds on Holden V8s, and both big and small block chevs, without using the usual gaskets.
(not using gaskets is not a recommended practice)

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#78 _Courage_

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:52 PM

HAha love the (not recommended) disclaimer.

The fix for this is getting the third bolt in really.

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#79 Rockoz

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:17 AM

Some places you can get away without a gasket without any problems.
There are however places where the gasket is needed for clearance issues.

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#80 _torbirdie_

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:55 AM

Jol , I disagree with Rodomo. Your heater is connected to the two pipes that come from under the thermostat. These pipes are at basically the same pressure. they come from the same point )front of head) they are supposed to provide the flow for the inlet manifold warming. DRILL the waterpump and connect the heater to the top pipe of the thermostat housing and the water pump. Connect the manifold to the top and bottom pipes of the thermostat housing. You may have to get a tee to put in the top pipe.The bottom pipe is supplied via a hole in the head and a channel in the housing it is quite often blocked with scale and does not flow any water above a trickle. I reckon this will fix your problem
T

In short no.

Rodomo is correct, basically there are two sets of supply and return that could be used, either the right side of the thermostat housing and the return through the water pump or the two on the left.
As can be seen from the photo, there isnt even one there on the right side of the housing and the pump one is obviously blocked off.

There doesnt appear to be anything visibly wrong with the plumbing that I can see,

Courage, I think you are getting the idea, the heater core is just like another radiator inside the car and it is supplied by the two hoses that go from the lhs of the thermostat housing(please call it that rather than the thermo!)
In your situation you have the heater core in series with the inlet manifold, the water goes through here 1st.

Lets just confirm what you have tested.

You have disconnected both the small diameter hoses(5/8 in heater hoses) from the lhs of the thermostat housing and run a hose through one and water comes out the other that you have disconnected? This would indicate that neither the inlet manifold, hoses or heater core are blocked.

When the motor is running the top hose leading from the thermostat housing going towards the heater gets hot? and is hot all the way to the heater core and returns with some warm out of the heater core back via the lower hose?

If the second doesnt occur there is blockage at the thermostat housing, or the water pump is very weak?

Changing the thermostat? if the thermostat is defective it wont stop water circulating in the heater core, it just controls the flow of water to the radiator. Even if its stuck wide open and the car is running cool, there will be at least some warmth getting to the heater.

Edited by torbirdie, 06 May 2009 - 02:10 AM.

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#81 _Courage_

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:56 PM

Update:

Car is at mechanics to get bolt removed by a pro i was thinking about usingf an easy out ... but I could just imagine what horrible things I would accidently do.

Everything is correct but this

"When the motor is running the top hose leading from the thermostat housing going towards the heater gets hot? and is hot all the way to the heater core and returns with some warm out of the heater core back via the lower hose?"

I call the pipe from the rad to the thermo hot.. as in "fark thats hot i just burnt myself" - neither of the 2 tubes beneath it (mani/heater) get anything more then luke warm.

I have replaced the thermostat anyway (frikin thing was nearly 40 years old)

I have given the head (with housing off) a good gurney out still no good.

Its either something deep in the head that i can't get to or (and this is what my mechanic said today) the old heaters fill up with deposits over the years and crystalise.. this causes an internal cooling and the heaters functions as a heat sink, it sucks a lot of heat out of the water but never gets that hot.

Anyway its all being reviewed tommorow.

There is 3 or 4 inches of bolt hanging outside of the head with maybe 20mm inside the head. I hope that have a tool that they can do this quickly with.

Question: Is there a special flush i can use to clear the deposits out of the cooling system liek CLR (that won't destroy my engine?) .. the equivilent of a fuel additive only to water/coolant?

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#82 ToRunYa

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:01 PM

TANIA!!! please buy this boy a set of MULTIGRIPS!

good idea jol, that little bit of money saves u the headache and private medical insurance claims.

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#83 _Squarepants_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 12:37 AM

If you're getting good flow through your heater core like you've said, I doubt there's any "crystalisation" going on there. Sounds like a load of BS to me. If there's some bolt sticking out of where you broke that one off (like the 3 or 4 inches that you described) just get some Vise Grips or even multi grips or pliers and wind it out. Don't be too quick to hand your money out unless they can gaurantee that it will fix your problem. You have a blockage there by the sounds of it, but as to where it is remains up to you. best of luck, try not to get ripped off.

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#84 _torbirdie_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:47 AM

Update:

Everything is correct

So you have disconnected both heater hoses at the thermostat housing and run a hose through them and the flow is unobstructed?

"When the motor is running the top hose leading from the thermostat housing going towards the heater gets hot? and is hot all the way to the heater core and returns with some warm out of the heater core back via the lower hose?"

I call the pipe from the rad to the thermo hot.. as in "fark thats hot i just burnt myself" - neither of the 2 tubes beneath it (mani/heater) get anything more then luke warm.

The top heater hose should be the same temp as the top hose going to the radiator or hotter, not cooler.
So we have a better idea on why your heater isnt working, flow of water there is only happening to a partial extent.

Update:

I have replaced the thermostat anyway (frikin thing was nearly 40 years old)

They can last forever.

Question: Is there a special flush i can use to clear the deposits out of the cooling system liek CLR (that won't destroy my engine?) .. the equivilent of a fuel additive only to water/coolant?

Bars leak radiator cleaner stuff may help, but is likely the thermostat housing is badly corroded inside if "that is causing the problem", maybe best to replace it.

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#85 _Courage_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 06:59 PM

Space log 12 Star date 12 43 34

Got her back with bolt fixed took them a few hours to get it out though.. thats ok. They gave her a turn and fixed up a few other issues that were pissing me off.

The head and the thermo housing are clear I've seen it myself and know that is unobstructed. There is still good flow on all ends ... frankly i have NFI of what is causing this issue now.

I'd like to get right into the heater box and check the core, is there any way of doing this without taking out the dash/consolt?

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#86 76lxhatch

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 07:07 PM

It seems to me that the problem has been established - you said there is only luke warm water flowing through the heater hoses. If you have established that there is plenty of flow through the heater hoses and core, and it doesn't leak, why go to the effort of removing the core?

Somewhere between the hot radiator hose and the less than hot heater hoses there is a problem.

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#87 _torbirdie_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:23 PM

It seems to me that the problem has been established - you said there is only luke warm water flowing through the heater hoses. If you have established that there is plenty of flow through the heater hoses and core, and it doesn't leak, why go to the effort of removing the core?

76lx hatch: You can only try!

Courage, to perhaps save yourself the trouble of unnecessarily pulling out the heater core ....connect your heater to your hot water tap at home, you can connect a garden hose to your hot water washing machine tap(its the same thread) and run that through your heater hoses and see if that gets hot air coming out of the heater.

Edited by torbirdie, 07 May 2009 - 09:25 PM.

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#88 _darrenmark1_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 10:40 PM

Jol WTF!

Just pull the Friggin heater core hose of that attaches to the manifold and stick a hose in it. disconnect the other one that comes from the heater core and turn the friggin tap on! if water comes out freely its all good!!!!

Elimate problems one by one!

If thats good, it must either be blocked in the hose or your water pump is F&ckD!

This is like watching grass grow, if you don't fix it tomorrow, I'm gona come and fix it myself!

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#89 _Courage_

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 11:53 PM

What time should I expect you Darren?

OK Tonight i gurnied everything, i have free flow through all the pipes.. however!

I found that it is one directional, i can not get water to go into the OUT pipe on the thermo housing. I don't know if there is a direction plug.

If it IS by directional then the blockage is in head/thermo

If not bi directional then farked if I know !!!