What RPM are the gemini stall convertors at? and which geminis have them? Missus has a gemini that he dad is using for parts for his race gemini, might see if i can source it out from there.
QLD P-Plate Worthy Torana
Started by
_splosh123_
, Sep 07 2009 05:52 PM
112 replies to this topic
#27
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 07:45 PM
Im not sure what model Gemini they come from, bomber should be able to clear that up for you. I believe that the 4cyl converters work out the be the equilivant to something like 2200rpm, so when choosing a cam get one that has good tourque at fairly low rpm, unless you wanna spend heaps on a converter
#28
_splosh123_
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 08:25 PM
Ends up the Gemini was a manual anyways. Getting a good pay check in a couple weeks, so i'll be sourcing out some of these things seriously. Any recommendations on where to look for a good cam?Im not sure what model Gemini they come from, bomber should be able to clear that up for you. I believe that the 4cyl converters work out the be the equilivant to something like 2200rpm, so when choosing a cam get one that has good tourque at fairly low rpm, unless you wanna spend heaps on a converter
Are these the measurements i should be aiming for: 215 to 225deg @ 0.050", 0.4" to 0.44" lift.
Edited by splosh123, 08 September 2009 - 08:33 PM.
#29
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:03 PM
I Have never had to buy one myself mate, but someone will tell you where and what to get
#30
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:16 PM
Yep gemini torque converter is about 2200rpm behind a mild engine, hence why im trying to get you to keep everything very mild so all the cheap parts work together nicely 
.
Also if you try to run to much power through one they explode, but i never had a problem.
Any auto gemini should be right, pretty sure they only came out with trimatics.
Also if you have a little money left over after all of this getting a stage two shift kit in the auto would be a very good mod that would work nicely with the rest of the stuff, not overly expensive either.
As for cam have a look at these reccomendations:
HEATSEEKER STAGE 3 CAMSHAFTS (one i shoulda got instead of the stage two)
Good midrange power increase, sharpens throttle response, great for performance use whilst maintaining driveability, responds best when used in MODIFIED engine (improvements in carburation, ignition, compression, exhaust, etc.) definite cammy note at idle.
POWERBAND 2000- 5800 R.P.M.
Crow:
(35603) HOLDEN 6 1964-87 Medium Hyd. Cam$255.20Add to Cart
Part Number 35603 Lobe Separation 110 Valve Lift
Inlet Opens 32 B.T.D.C. Inlet Closes 68 A.B.D.C. 0.443
Exhaust Opens 72 B.B.D.C. Exhaust Closes 28 A.T.D.C. 0.443
Inlet Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Exhaust Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Wade:
242a Ex .284
In .281 71-29
31-70 210
209 Hyd
Hyd .426
.421 110
Just a few i looked up in a hurry, i would probably go the heatseeker for this as it would be the cheapest most likely and i had good results from my stage two.
The larger stage three will work fine in a 202 as it has more capacity than my old 173 did, more capacity can handle more cam.
Cheers.
.Also if you try to run to much power through one they explode, but i never had a problem.
Any auto gemini should be right, pretty sure they only came out with trimatics.
Also if you have a little money left over after all of this getting a stage two shift kit in the auto would be a very good mod that would work nicely with the rest of the stuff, not overly expensive either.
As for cam have a look at these reccomendations:
HEATSEEKER STAGE 3 CAMSHAFTS (one i shoulda got instead of the stage two)
Good midrange power increase, sharpens throttle response, great for performance use whilst maintaining driveability, responds best when used in MODIFIED engine (improvements in carburation, ignition, compression, exhaust, etc.) definite cammy note at idle.
POWERBAND 2000- 5800 R.P.M.
Crow:
(35603) HOLDEN 6 1964-87 Medium Hyd. Cam$255.20Add to Cart
Part Number 35603 Lobe Separation 110 Valve Lift
Inlet Opens 32 B.T.D.C. Inlet Closes 68 A.B.D.C. 0.443
Exhaust Opens 72 B.B.D.C. Exhaust Closes 28 A.T.D.C. 0.443
Inlet Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Exhaust Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Wade:
242a Ex .284
In .281 71-29
31-70 210
209 Hyd
Hyd .426
.421 110
Just a few i looked up in a hurry, i would probably go the heatseeker for this as it would be the cheapest most likely and i had good results from my stage two.
The larger stage three will work fine in a 202 as it has more capacity than my old 173 did, more capacity can handle more cam.
Cheers.
Edited by Bomber Watson, 08 September 2009 - 10:18 PM.
#31
_splosh123_
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:41 PM
Interesting, interesting. I already have bough a B&M Megashifter, which i believe is stage 2.Yep gemini torque converter is about 2200rpm behind a mild engine, hence why im trying to get you to keep everything very mild so all the cheap parts work together nicely
Also if you try to run to much power through one they explode, but i never had a problem.
Any auto gemini should be right, pretty sure they only came out with trimatics.
Also if you have a little money left over after all of this getting a stage two shift kit in the auto would be a very good mod that would work nicely with the rest of the stuff, not overly expensive either.
As for cam have a look at these reccomendations:
HEATSEEKER STAGE 3 CAMSHAFTS (one i shoulda got instead of the stage two)
Good midrange power increase, sharpens throttle response, great for performance use whilst maintaining driveability, responds best when used in MODIFIED engine (improvements in carburation, ignition, compression, exhaust, etc.) definite cammy note at idle.
POWERBAND 2000- 5800 R.P.M.
Crow:
(35603) HOLDEN 6 1964-87 Medium Hyd. Cam$255.20Add to Cart
Part Number 35603 Lobe Separation 110 Valve Lift
Inlet Opens 32 B.T.D.C. Inlet Closes 68 A.B.D.C. 0.443
Exhaust Opens 72 B.B.D.C. Exhaust Closes 28 A.T.D.C. 0.443
Inlet Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Exhaust Duration 214 at 0.050 280 Advertised
Wade:
242a Ex .284
In .281 71-29
31-70 210
209 Hyd
Hyd .426
.421 110
Just a few i looked up in a hurry, i would probably go the heatseeker for this as it would be the cheapest most likely and i had good results from my stage two.
The larger stage three will work fine in a 202 as it has more capacity than my old 173 did, more capacity can handle more cam.
Cheers.
Will have a look at the cams over the next couple weeks, and like i said earlier will create a thread in the workshop, and if need be you's can guide me through it...
Cheers Josh.
#32
wot179
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:08 PM
This is a pretty good site to look for swapmeets. http://www.pinky.com.au/
When I say get there early,that means when the gates open,usually about 6am.
The early bird catches the worm.Swapmeets are great.
Goodluck.
When I say get there early,that means when the gates open,usually about 6am.
The early bird catches the worm.Swapmeets are great.
Goodluck.
#33
_mello92_
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:11 PM
Josh mate, Bomber said "stage 2 shift kit in the auto". He wasnt referring to the actual thingy you change gears with mate - aka the 'shifter'.
Dont ask me what it entails though, AFAIK, shift kits change things to make it more better! LOL
Autos are not my strongpoint mate!
In regards to cam, I have always heard good things about Ivan Tighe, down in Brissy. Neighbour rekons hes the best, and hes been playing with Holden 6's for more years than I know. Said neighbour also ran a 49/90 cam in one of his engines, rekoned it sounded awesome, and common in the day! You dont want that cam though!
Dont ask me what it entails though, AFAIK, shift kits change things to make it more better! LOL
Autos are not my strongpoint mate!
In regards to cam, I have always heard good things about Ivan Tighe, down in Brissy. Neighbour rekons hes the best, and hes been playing with Holden 6's for more years than I know. Said neighbour also ran a 49/90 cam in one of his engines, rekoned it sounded awesome, and common in the day! You dont want that cam though!
#34
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 09 September 2009 - 05:38 PM
Cam in my big motor is a Tigh.
Havnt started it yet so cant comment.
Yes mello is right, i was refering to actually getting the box tickled.
It just changes the valving a bit and gives a firmer shift and lets the box stay in the same gear for longer.
Stage one is very mild, just takes the sloshyness out of the box.
Stage two will give you fair bit quicker shifts over standard, it will shift fairly hard and hold the gears as long as it has to (untill the motor stops making torque).
I have a stage three in my trimatic, also called a fully manualized auto. Basically with that setup the gearbox doesnt change gears for you. I have a pro ratchet, and when i click up it goes up, when i click down it goes down, it does this instantly and only if i tell it.
Think of it as either a manual without a clutch or an auto that doesnt change gears
.
Latter is great, but a pain unless you have a ratchet shifter and also very expensive when matched with the other gear you will want to run.
Stage two wont cost much, not sure have never priced one but should be around $500 fitted with a service thrown in.
Cheers.
Havnt started it yet so cant comment.
Yes mello is right, i was refering to actually getting the box tickled.
It just changes the valving a bit and gives a firmer shift and lets the box stay in the same gear for longer.
Stage one is very mild, just takes the sloshyness out of the box.
Stage two will give you fair bit quicker shifts over standard, it will shift fairly hard and hold the gears as long as it has to (untill the motor stops making torque).
I have a stage three in my trimatic, also called a fully manualized auto. Basically with that setup the gearbox doesnt change gears for you. I have a pro ratchet, and when i click up it goes up, when i click down it goes down, it does this instantly and only if i tell it.
Think of it as either a manual without a clutch or an auto that doesnt change gears
.Latter is great, but a pain unless you have a ratchet shifter and also very expensive when matched with the other gear you will want to run.
Stage two wont cost much, not sure have never priced one but should be around $500 fitted with a service thrown in.
Cheers.
#35
_splosh123_
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Posted 09 September 2009 - 11:23 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com....4#ht_859wt_1165
These seem to be on the right track, should i go with the WER 3 Cam?
These seem to be on the right track, should i go with the WER 3 Cam?
#36
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 05:56 PM
WER 2 looks better.
Remember unless you want to change valve springs etc you dont want much lift.....
Cheers.
Remember unless you want to change valve springs etc you dont want much lift.....
Cheers.
#37
_splosh123_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:15 PM
So Wer2 won't require a lift?<br />WER 2 looks better.<br /><br />Remember unless you want to change valve springs etc you dont want much lift.....<br /><br />Cheers.<br />
Edited by splosh123, 10 September 2009 - 06:17 PM.
#38
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 07:05 PM
Its not that it wont require lift, it has lift.
Its just that standard valve springs coil bind fairly quickly, if you get a cam with to much valve lift then you will need performance springs, another $150+
Unless you pick up a head that already has springs, then no dramas.
Remember though were trying to keep the standard bottom end as well as a few other things so we dont want anything to big.
Cheers.
Its just that standard valve springs coil bind fairly quickly, if you get a cam with to much valve lift then you will need performance springs, another $150+
Unless you pick up a head that already has springs, then no dramas.
Remember though were trying to keep the standard bottom end as well as a few other things so we dont want anything to big.
Cheers.
#39
_splosh123_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:42 PM
Its not that it wont require lift, it has lift.
Its just that standard valve springs coil bind fairly quickly, if you get a cam with to much valve lift then you will need performance springs, another $150+
Unless you pick up a head that already has springs, then no dramas.
Remember though were trying to keep the standard bottom end as well as a few other things so we dont want anything to big.
Cheers.
okay. so i've ordered the WER3 one. Will now have to look for a y/t head then, should i just leave the stock head and the Holley 350 on there, and then put the head, cam, torque converter etc on at the same time, or should it be safe to put the cam in, and then the torque converter, as they will be the first things i'll probably get. And then put the head on last. getting the extractors and 2 1/2" exhaust next week.
#40
_splosh123_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:12 PM
I mean WER2... won't let me edit?
Its not that it wont require lift, it has lift.
Its just that standard valve springs coil bind fairly quickly, if you get a cam with to much valve lift then you will need performance springs, another $150+
Unless you pick up a head that already has springs, then no dramas.
Remember though were trying to keep the standard bottom end as well as a few other things so we dont want anything to big.
Cheers.
okay. so i've ordered the WER3 one. Will now have to look for a y/t head then, should i just leave the stock head and the Holley 350 on there, and then put the head, cam, torque converter etc on at the same time, or should it be safe to put the cam in, and then the torque converter, as they will be the first things i'll probably get. And then put the head on last. getting the extractors and 2 1/2" exhaust next week.
#41
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:58 PM
Look i cant see a huge drama with doing things in stages like that with this kind of combination.
It just wont perform worth a damb untill everything is on.
But will be driveable i suppose.
Cheers.
It just wont perform worth a damb untill everything is on.
But will be driveable i suppose.
Cheers.
#42
_splosh123_
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 11:17 PM
Look i cant see a huge drama with doing things in stages like that with this kind of combination.
It just wont perform worth a damb untill everything is on.
But will be driveable i suppose.
Cheers.
I might just wait then, and get some mates to come around and have some beers and a big work day, as i'm not all that sure on how to put the cam in and what not, so it'll probably be better to do it all at once with some experienced people.
Then i have to check all my suspension and brakes etc, no point having a car with a bit of power, and not be able to turn corners haha.
#43
_mello92_
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Posted 11 September 2009 - 01:05 AM
IMO, you should be doing this the other way round.
Suspension and brakes first.
You gotta stop before you can go.
But yeah, if you dont know how to change cams and what not, then yeah ask an experienced person/s for some help.
Dont let them do it all but, you gotta learn eh.
Suspension and brakes first.
You gotta stop before you can go.
But yeah, if you dont know how to change cams and what not, then yeah ask an experienced person/s for some help.
Dont let them do it all but, you gotta learn eh.
#44
_splosh123_
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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:22 AM
IMO, you should be doing this the other way round.
Suspension and brakes first.
You gotta stop before you can go.
But yeah, if you dont know how to change cams and what not, then yeah ask an experienced person/s for some help.
Dont let them do it all but, you gotta learn eh.
Yeah, i'm not going to be driving the thing until i get the suspension and all that right, i don't mind it sitting in the garage for another few months, just means when it's finally unleashed to the roads it will be top notch. I don't plan to put any of my passengers in danger when i drive, so a month of two isn't a big deal for it not to be on the road.
Also, ofcourse i will be getting them to teach me, otherwise whats the point?
#45
Heath
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Posted 15 September 2009 - 10:41 AM
Brakes on a standard Torana are fine if your tyres are reasonable. Get some decent shocks, stiffer springs and working swaybars (good rubbers on your swaybars) and it will work okay. If you have more time and money, replace any bushes that are worn as well 
#46
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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:47 PM
Yeah i'm going to jack the car up when i have a couple days spare and inspect it all.Brakes on a standard Torana are fine if your tyres are reasonable. Get some decent shocks, stiffer springs and working swaybars (good rubbers on your swaybars) and it will work okay. If you have more time and money, replace any bushes that are worn as well
So far i've arranged; Crow Hydraulic Camshaft, 186 Yella Terra High Comp head (needs a little work), About to go out and buy all the necessary little parts for my carby so i can atleast crank the car over today as it's been a month or so since.
#47
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 September 2009 - 06:57 PM
Awesome stuff mate, doing well..
Cheers.
Cheers.
#48
_splosh123_
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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:14 PM
Going to get the digital camera out tomorrow, and start up a build thread, so you can all pick at it and comment. Car looks pretty shotty at the moment, has no seats, no shifter etc, worst thing about cars is it's so easy to pull them apart, but it's putting them back together.
#49
_Brad1979UC_
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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:54 PM
sounds good mate, have a go at putting the cam in with a few mates, its not too hard i did mine in my 202 a few weeks ago, had never done it before, it will all make sense once you pull it out, have a chat to a few people but yea, not hard, and a great P plater mod, im also on my P's, my 202 has all the common go fast bits that your getting suggested and though you might get disheartened with power figures i wouldnt really worry, as bomber has shown you, you'll still be able to have a lotta fun with it and it will do great skids hahaha (i founds when i changed the cam it smokes up way better now!), i reckon change carby if you havnt, will make a big difference, but yea in terms of performance, YT head and that cam usually work well together.
#50
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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:30 AM
Haha awesome, i'll be sure to try out a few skids in it(I mean come on, who isn't going to do a burnout in their Torana). Although i'm wondering about the whole it being automatic is going to set me back, i don't want to be on the brake all the time haha.sounds good mate, have a go at putting the cam in with a few mates, its not too hard i did mine in my 202 a few weeks ago, had never done it before, it will all make sense once you pull it out, have a chat to a few people but yea, not hard, and a great P plater mod, im also on my P's, my 202 has all the common go fast bits that your getting suggested and though you might get disheartened with power figures i wouldnt really worry, as bomber has shown you, you'll still be able to have a lotta fun with it and it will do great skids hahaha (i founds when i changed the cam it smokes up way better now!), i reckon change carby if you havnt, will make a big difference, but yea in terms of performance, YT head and that cam usually work well together.
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