pics of problem spots in this thread:
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=13593
Acrylic vs 2P
Started by
_tweetytorana_
, Sep 15 2009 06:44 PM
40 replies to this topic
#27
_nial8r_
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Posted 16 September 2009 - 04:17 PM
I still wonder why ppl even bother with acrylic these days.
It must have something to do with a fingerprint removing fetish.
I'm certainly not a painter, or a panel beater, but even a dumb ass boiley like me can get good results with 2K.
I dont believe in the 'acrylic is shinier' comments. If the results were that far apart, wouldn't ALL the prestige manufacturers be using acrylic?
If i had $350K + to blow on a new Porsche or Fezza, i rekon i would be expecting pretty shiny paint!
Why do you want to do a full bare metal repaint Jo?
If the paint is good, then surely a 2K blow over is all that is needed. That's about all it should cost too! 2K!
Panel beater/painters are not high on my x-mas card list!
I swear most of them think they are brain surgeons & want paid accordingly!
Good & bad in every bunch! I seem to attract the bad ones. Dont get me started......
While we are talking painters, can anyone tell me why it takes a rediculious amount of time to paint a car? Some shops are keeping them for 12mths & longer.
most panel shops will keep a car for that long as they get quick bucks from the cars that get brought in that have been in stacks, ( bolt off, bolt on = quick money ) they get them done pretty quick and get the next one in were as a full respray + repairs takes alot longer. the last panel shop i worked in there was a LX Hatch there when i started working there and was still there when i left ( just shy of 2 yrs ) and every minute that was spent on it had to be logged in a book and only got worked on when things got quiet which was never for long, i would always see the fella that owned it come in and the look on his face after a month of not seeing it to only see it still the same was almost like a kid in a lollie shop but couldnt have one
but the boss would always just say to him things are starting to slow down and we will hook into it ( blowing wind up his arse ) i know for a fact i would have taken the car along time before the 12 month mark that for sure, shit that just turned into a rant...
#28
_beergut_
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Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:59 PM
don't know bout nowdays but in the dark glumy times when i was young and dumb lol
2k would kill you without a full mask and seperate air supply were as arylic would just make you sick
which is y i use it on my home jobs
plus the fact it dries quick and you can sand and recoat in a hour not 12
2k would kill you without a full mask and seperate air supply were as arylic would just make you sick
which is y i use it on my home jobs
plus the fact it dries quick and you can sand and recoat in a hour not 12
#29
_Ben_
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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:32 PM
While we are talking painters, can anyone tell me why it takes a rediculious amount of time to paint a car? Some shops are keeping them for 12mths & longer.
I reckon it might have something to do with insurance work. Insurance work for panel beaters is worth more to them and has a higher priority than resprays.............i could be wrong but
#30
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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:50 PM
As a panel beater, suddenly i don't feel so welcome on this forum anymore 
#31
_beergut_
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 02:26 AM
way of the world easy quickest highest paying jobs first:nudie:
#32
_nial8r_
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:20 AM
As a panel beater, suddenly i don't feel so welcome on this forum anymore
nah Matt your right mate its just the way it goes in panel shops these days and im pretty sure you know that already and besides you do the work that your told to do so yu really dont have a choice to which car you work on that is in the shop.
#33
Statler
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 09:48 AM
Good & bad in every bunch!
Read that bit again Lee.
:hug:
I'm not pointing the finger at anyone.
#34
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 05:53 PM
Mmm, this is looking serious.
#35
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:01 PM
Thanks Lee, but then you worked in the trade for awhile so you have an idea of what we have to deal with on a daily basis. For those who aren't in the trade i'll put it like this.......If your loo blocks up & you call a plumber to fix it, you don't tell him how to do his job, you don't tell him how much you're going to pay him, you don't tell him he has 0.3 of an hour to do it & if he takes any longer, he won't be paid for the extra time it takes. He would tell you where to go as would most people regardless of vocation. The insurance companies for the most part pay us (panel shops) a non-negotiable hourly rate of $30 regardless of whether it's a $500,000 Maserati or a busted ass VN Commodore, we are given unrealistic out of date "book times" again set by the insurance companies, & again non-negotiable, for spray painting & removal/refitting, we have "motor vehicle assessors" who in alot of instances have never repaired a car in their life, or if they have, the last was when Bob Hawke was prime minister, dictating the overall times & repair methods we have to follow, even if it means butchering the car to save the insurance company a few dollars, & if there is a problem or the owner of the car is unhappy with the job, even if we've followed the insurance company's scope of work, the insurance company puts the responsiblity back onto us to rectify the problem at our cost. If we don't agree with any or all of the above, we are black listed & don't get any work from them. Alot of this is caused by shonky repairers undercutting everyone by doing cheap inferior work, but then the insurance companies are quite happy to let this happen if it saves them money, so they are largly to blame too. It is such a cut throat industry that if you're an honest operator who won't cut corners or try to make a few extra dollars any way you can, especially with the overheads involved in operating a panel shop, you will go broke very quickly. As for slow turn over in private work such as restos or repaints, part of the conditions set by the insurance companies is we have time frames in which to do the jobs, along with owners screaming they need their car back asap & insisting we pay for their hire car if we can't deliver in the time frame they expect. We can't please everyone & there are only so many hours in a day. Yeah i've ranted on, but maybe if people in general knew some of what we have to deal with from our insurance company masters & their customers, they wouldn't be so quick to judge us.
#36
_tweetytorana_
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:07 PM
Sorry you feel judged. I'm fully aware of all you've mentioned - whilst I may not understand the techniques of spraying, the concerns you mention would also fit with dealerships and mechanics too. Where the customer can be charges $90 per hour, the mechanic gets less than $30 of it & is given unrealistic times set by the manufacturers to complete services etc & get their asses kicked if they go 5 mins over as the customer is back in the office pacing. I know of a lot of mechanics who cut courners in checking simple things that should be checked with a service. My husband is one who refuses to cut corners so he often goes over the time & accepts the ass-kicking because he doesn't want the car in an accident he feels he caused though neglect. The same applies for most jobs really - sadly the world is under the concept of everything must be done NOW. Crap down I'm dribbling. 
Good news, panel beater/spay painter that did the two $1500 spray overs that I thought had left the trade is still doing the odd one so off to see him on Monday, he'll spray acrylic, he'll repair any rust and the best bit is his quotes are either spot on, or once less than $200 out. Time frame will be the only issue (not because he's slow or doing insurance claims) he's gone into another line of work so mine will have to fit around that. Failing that I'll head up the highway - been told Geelong has some good panel shops!
Cheers.
#37
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Posted 17 September 2009 - 09:28 PM
No worries TweetyTorana, your sentiments are appreciated 
I work under similar conditions to your husband & even though i have target times i'm supposed to adhere to, i'd rather take my time & do the job properly even if it reflects on my productivity. I suppose i'm lucky i still have a job cause the main focus in alot of shops these days is quantity over quality. Yet more fallout from the way the insurance companies have stuffed this industry. Anyhow, i'm happy to hear you have found the right person to help you bring your Torana back to it's former glory. I look forward to seeing pics once it's all straight & shiny again. All the best.
Matt
I work under similar conditions to your husband & even though i have target times i'm supposed to adhere to, i'd rather take my time & do the job properly even if it reflects on my productivity. I suppose i'm lucky i still have a job cause the main focus in alot of shops these days is quantity over quality. Yet more fallout from the way the insurance companies have stuffed this industry. Anyhow, i'm happy to hear you have found the right person to help you bring your Torana back to it's former glory. I look forward to seeing pics once it's all straight & shiny again. All the best.Matt
#38
View GaragePosted 17 September 2009 - 09:43 PM
Hah, most people would! I think anyone in a professional trade has problems with customers like these, you can always tell the people who are either involved in the same trade or run their own businesses because they're somewhat more realistic...If your loo blocks up & you call a plumber to fix it, you don't tell him how to do his job, you don't tell him how much you're going to pay him, you don't tell him he has 0.3 of an hour to do it & if he takes any longer, he won't be paid for the extra time it takes.
#39
_nial8r_
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Posted 18 September 2009 - 07:24 AM
same as scaffolding when not doning a shut down but doing a house for brickies, a couple of palletts get dropped of by the truck and you pretty much have the day to erect it as the brickies will be there first thing the next day so it comes down to a " job & knock " but if its still not done by 6 pm your staying there till its done, almost every trade has a time limit these days and somehow i dont seeing it change anytime soon thats for sure.......
well put Matt
Thanks Lee, but then you worked in the trade for awhile so you have an idea of what we have to deal with on a daily basis. For those who aren't in the trade i'll put it like this.......If your loo blocks up & you call a plumber to fix it, you don't tell him how to do his job, you don't tell him how much you're going to pay him, you don't tell him he has 0.3 of an hour to do it & if he takes any longer, he won't be paid for the extra time it takes. He would tell you where to go as would most people regardless of vocation. The insurance companies for the most part pay us (panel shops) a non-negotiable hourly rate of $30 regardless of whether it's a $500,000 Maserati or a busted ass VN Commodore, we are given unrealistic out of date "book times" again set by the insurance companies, & again non-negotiable, for spray painting & removal/refitting, we have "motor vehicle assessors" who in alot of instances have never repaired a car in their life, or if they have, the last was when Bob Hawke was prime minister, dictating the overall times & repair methods we have to follow, even if it means butchering the car to save the insurance company a few dollars, & if there is a problem or the owner of the car is unhappy with the job, even if we've followed the insurance company's scope of work, the insurance company puts the responsiblity back onto us to rectify the problem at our cost. If we don't agree with any or all of the above, we are black listed & don't get any work from them. Alot of this is caused by shonky repairers undercutting everyone by doing cheap inferior work, but then the insurance companies are quite happy to let this happen if it saves them money, so they are largly to blame too. It is such a cut throat industry that if you're an honest operator who won't cut corners or try to make a few extra dollars any way you can, especially with the overheads involved in operating a panel shop, you will go broke very quickly. As for slow turn over in private work such as restos or repaints, part of the conditions set by the insurance companies is we have time frames in which to do the jobs, along with owners screaming they need their car back asap & insisting we pay for their hire car if we can't deliver in the time frame they expect. We can't please everyone & there are only so many hours in a day. Yeah i've ranted on, but maybe if people in general knew some of what we have to deal with from our insurance company masters & their customers, they wouldn't be so quick to judge us.
well put Matt
#40
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Posted 18 September 2009 - 04:25 PM
I stand by my rant, i wouldn't have posted it if i didn't believe a word of it. I got talking to a good panel beater friend who has been in the trade for longer than i've been on the planet, including a stint working for BMW in Germany, & he agrees with what said but still told me i was feeling sorry for myself 
& you know what, i probably was. I am human being with faults like most, but i can admit to them. Unlike certain insurance companies 
& you know what, i probably was. I am human being with faults like most, but i can admit to them. Unlike certain insurance companies
#41
Potta
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Posted 18 September 2009 - 06:20 PM
Good to see you've found someone you're happy with TT. Hope he can do it for ya.
Matt, thanks for the insight. It helps to get a different perspective on things.
I spose if you told the insurance companies to stick it you'd have very little work so you're stuck with it really.
Matt, thanks for the insight. It helps to get a different perspective on things.
I spose if you told the insurance companies to stick it you'd have very little work so you're stuck with it really.
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