89 replies to this topic

[Bart]

This raises some interesting points as far as design rules are concerned as stated in some of the above posts,

One i would like to point out is the ORIGINAL MINI These were released in 1959 and kept the structual specs right up until 2000 when production finished with that bady style, They did change from carb to EFI.

i worked with a bloke that managed to get a 1998 mini shell and basically build it up to his own spec, got reg no problems.

In some ways i hope these shells never get made, due to how much the originals will drop in value, We've all seen it with Rare spares parts, ie, SS Ashtrays before repo were fetching near on $500ea. now you can get a repo for $50,

people are willing to spend $100,000 plus on a HT GTS or XY GT thats been restored. or theres a cheap repo shell for fraction of the cost that you can get all the made in china repo rubbish to fit into it, Basically would make it a JAPANESE MUSCLE CAR.

Bring on the replacement panels/ rust repair sections that will be great.

I dont know about you guys but i want my 70's car to be worth a bit in the future, not under valued buy a repo.

But hang on; you�re saying people should only buy these cars only if they got big bucks. And the ones who don�t have big bucks miss out? Why should we miss out? Personally I can�t buy a $100000 Monaro etc, but a $17000 shell is within my range. You�re saying even if the technology and will to make repro's exist it should be ignored? Mate this is the reason house prices have shot up. (Different subject but) the fewer houses to sell the higher the price. This is what happened to Toranas etc, yes they have become rare. You�re saying just because you have invested heavily in an original we that should miss out. Sorry, investments are risky, if you loose it�s a bad investment, if you win I say good luck.

[dattoman]

By the time you buy a 20k shell and turn it into a complete driving car you've spent your big bucks anyway (I challenge anyone to turn a shell with no spare parts into a runner for less than 70k)
It won't devalue your overinflated classic but might give a few of them a chance to live again that aren't too flash right now

Yes I'd buy a shell in a heartbeat instead of fixing the tinworm
But thats my decision
And since my cars not for sale... whats the harm ?
Infact it would probably make my car worth more with a new body than a repair of what I have

[Statler]

if the time came to sell, i wouldn't be palming it off as an original, i'd be letting the buyer know it was a rebody.

Can you be sure that the next owner.....or the one after that...is as honest?

Mark my words, if this goes ahead, then ppl will be burnt!

[A9X]

interesting points of view on both sides and i'll finish my bit with the following;

Facts.

People are already reshelling cars - some do it with great intent and some do it for straight fraud.
These bodies have been made all over the world for longer than we care to think about - nothing here is new.

The AC Cobra has to be one of the most copied cars of all times from kit car bodies that fit a vw chassis or toyota crown chassis to full blown 'continuation models'.
It has not harmed the price of a genuine one.

The Ford GT40 is the same, you can even buy one today and race it in FIA HISTORIC RACES all over the world (try that Group C)
It has not harmed the price of a real one.

My targa hatch consistently races agains 911 Porsches that are copies of the 74 RSR, these guys go out of their way to remanufacture parts and log book there cars as RSR's.
It only sends the originals higher.

If a HK LJ or LX shell means my boy gets to build a safe one (not critisizing genuine rust repair) and i get to see them drving down the road every so often, then i'll take that over paying $20 to see a faker in a museum or collection. (hello Mr Champion).

At the end of the day, there is not going to be a run on them. With the population in the US, Dynacorp does not sell 100 'stang shells a year.
Think about it.

Then think about the amount of 'stang shells butchered, crashed, exported and plain dying and i think its a non event for those with genuine cars.
I'd even suggest that it makes your cars more valuable. As Originals.

I read Octane mag from the UK. I get it for the ads. It's porn for classic car nuts.
After a 12 month subscription, you will see the absurdity of our little forum sometimes.

But hey, great topic and discussion.

Happy new year all.

[Bart]

interesting points of view on both sides and i'll finish my bit with the following;

Facts.

People are already reshelling cars - some do it with great intent and some do it for straight fraud.
These bodies have been made all over the world for longer than we care to think about - nothing here is new.

The AC Cobra has to be one of the most copied cars of all times from kit car bodies that fit a vw chassis or toyota crown chassis to full blown 'continuation models'.
It has not harmed the price of a genuine one.

The Ford GT40 is the same, you can even buy one today and race it in FIA HISTORIC RACES all over the world (try that Group C)
It has not harmed the price of a real one.

My targa hatch consistently races agains 911 Porsches that are copies of the 74 RSR, these guys go out of their way to remanufacture parts and log book there cars as RSR's.
It only sends the originals higher.

If a HK LJ or LX shell means my boy gets to build a safe one (not critisizing genuine rust repair) and i get to see them drving down the road every so often, then i'll take that over paying $20 to see a faker in a museum or collection. (hello Mr Champion).

At the end of the day, there is not going to be a run on them. With the population in the US, Dynacorp does not sell 100 'stang shells a year.
Think about it.

Then think about the amount of 'stang shells butchered, crashed, exported and plain dying and i think its a non event for those with genuine cars.
I'd even suggest that it makes your cars more valuable. As Originals.

I read Octane mag from the UK. I get it for the ads. It's porn for classic car nuts.
After a 12 month subscription, you will see the absurdity of our little forum sometimes.

But hey, great topic and discussion.

Happy new year all.

I think youre pretty well spot on

[enderwigginau]

lets see.......if i can buy a brand new replacement shell for my LH/X SL/R for around 17k,....yet my panel beater wants 15K to try to return mine to 'as new' condition.....but i can buy a set of tag rivets for around $45 on evilbay.....does anyone else see the problem?

We shoulda bought XY GT's! Atleast we wouldn't have a problem buying parts!

As Dane said, it will be obvious that the shell is new, and not refurbished old......

There is a method for compliancing low volume production vehicles. �The dudes with the kit AC Cobra's do it that way. �They must do these in Victoria, as they are built there, as they do the Ford GT40 kit cars.

Last time I was talking to the AC Cobra dudes, I think they confirmed compliance to the latest ADR's.��I only remember it because they commenting on having CATs heating up under the floor pan.

Pat, they build GT40s and Cobra's ten minutes from my place here - the original constructors in australia had to prove the safety of the vehicles and did have to crash test them. �There is low volume and Low Volume - I think the cutoff maybe 14 vehicles?? �Then crash away. �If you don't crash test, then you cannot construct more than the cutoff..........


The reason is these would be new vehicles, and they would need to comply with current ADRs. �Structural integrity in the front and rear would need to be modified and therefore proof of engineering is required.

If you can find an updated specification, forward it on - sent a hat for me to eat too �I've lost the old one (which I thought was current).

I said this before and i will say it again.

I cant see it possible.

Things like crumple zones etc.....Just think about it.

No you cant just switch the tags, although realistically who the f*ck would know, no, its not morally right....

Cheers.

As said, if they can be classified as a spare part, then yes, you can change shells, but yes, you would be able to tell. �And if some cock sold you a car without telling you it had been rebodied, then the court can give his house to you to buy a real one


Grant..

[enderwigginau]

Mmmpff chmmpfpf hrmpph - this hat tastes shite, and the Ben 10 sticker scratched my tongue.............

Pat,

here is a new DOTARs doc -�Low Volume Passenger Cars

You can plate up to 25 vehicles a year once certified and need to afix a label stating that the car has not been tested to the relevant ADRs for crash testing................

So, does anyone have twentyfive of the following:

R31 BW78, LJ steering column, Skyline seats (full set)........................




Grant..

PS. As previously stated, if you want to go over the limit, start breaking cars for fun �Hey Mark, this seems better/easier than we thought!!

[TerrA LX]

I dont understand the apprehension over replacement bodies,
We can replace the brakes, ball joints, doors, bonnet, carpet and even the paint, but hell no dont replace the body...
as I have said before and above posts prove it, it has been happening in panel shops all over the world legally since before adam was a boy.
This is not to be confused with re birthing.

I do not believe for one second that you could have my house because I sold you a re bodied car, just because I failed to tell you.

[TerrA LX]

and terra is called fraud or obtaining money by deception or some bs like that
but yeah can happen

What a load of garbage, fraud, you have the definition correct but I doubt there would be a court in the word where you would win on the grounds you were not informed of a "replacement part" such as a bonnet or a body for that matter, there is nothing illegal about it so where is the fraud???
As I said, different story if the car had been rebirthed.

[TerrA LX]

I cant see where it isnt rebirthing.

Lets say for arguments sake you have a XU-1 with a rusted to hell back end, but from the firewall foward is perfect.

So you pick up a perfect condition S 2 door, cut it off from the A pillars foward and put the XU-1 front end onto the S model.

Is that not rebirthing??? Just using a "replacement part..."

Rebirthing IMO....

Cheers.

Vehicle rebirthing is the name given when a stolen vehicle is given a
new identity, usually by changing its identification numbers and
serial numbers. As the identity of a stolen car is a problem for
thieves when trying to resell a vehicle, they replace the car's
identity with that of a wrecked vehicle. By doing this, it can be
claimed that the vehicle was repaired to a roadworthy condition.
Vehicle rebirthing can also include vehicles that are being imported
for reassembly or using the identities of imported vehicles.

[enderwigginau]

What a load of garbage, fraud, you have the definition correct but I doubt there would be a court in the word where you would win on the grounds you were not informed of a "replacement part" such as a bonnet or a body for that matter, there is nothing illegal about it so where is the fraud???
As I said, different story if the car had been rebirthed.

If you are paying a premium for something that is said (even by not saying) to be 100% original (and we all know that, say, an XU-1 that has been legally reshelled is worth significantly less that those with pristine provenance), only to find it is worth 10-20% (or more) less than you paid, you'd be pissed too. �Or you can't sell it because there are legal issues with the reshell??

People HAVE lost houses or gone to gaol over this very sort of issue, and it is best to let people know what may happen if they don't go about it the right way. �A guard or bonnet are not the vehicle - the only part that is the car no matter what, is the shell with tags. �A body shell is not traditionally deemed a "replaceable part", which is why there is such rigmarole surrounding officially changing it.

Grant..

[TerrA LX]

What does GMP&A mean???

A9X Club welcomes them

Edited by TerrA LX, 02 January 2010 - 07:46 PM.