We will all be worse off because of this..
hopefully, one day, this information will be released........
Edited by sstorana, 13 February 2010 - 11:33 PM.
A9X Engine numbers.
Started by
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, Feb 10 2010 05:49 PM
95 replies to this topic
#51
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Posted 13 February 2010 - 11:33 PM
well that's a real shame...
We will all be worse off because of this..
hopefully, one day, this information will be released........
We will all be worse off because of this..
hopefully, one day, this information will be released........
#52
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Posted 13 February 2010 - 11:38 PM
Night Red...................Night Jim Bob............Night Elly Mae..............
#53
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Posted 13 February 2010 - 11:55 PM
Geeze... how am I going to turn my LH sedan into an A9X hatch now.... grumble
#54
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:11 AM
After reading all the comments i agree with BOTH SS & RED. The information needs to be released but not before a full database has been formed that includes current owners.An L34 is not an L34 unless it is registered on this database and so on. Perhaps work with all SLR's upto the A9X. I'm sure all people who currently have these cars would be more than willing to put their details up and verify their claim. Obviously the vehicle will need to be verified to become a member. A bit of coin might be made for the one responsible for the database build as we would have to $ registar $. 
#55
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:10 AM
and what would we get for these $$$$?
and what's to stop a dodgey person stealing the register and getting the info on where any number of geniune l34's and a9x's are stored?
and what's to stop a dodgey person stealing the register and getting the info on where any number of geniune l34's and a9x's are stored?
#56
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:20 PM
and what would we get for these $$$$?
and what's to stop a dodgey person stealing the register and getting the info on where any number of geniune l34's and a9x's are stored?
Guys
I am not talking about a register or anything like that..
The information that I seek is the information that outlines the vin numbers, etc (as per what is already available in the Torana Performance Handbook on A9X's) that would allow us to collate and pull informative data of not only individual cars, but will also tell us things like;
How many LX SS 3.3's were made,
How many LH SLR 5.0lt Autos were made,
How many LX SL 4.2lt cars were made,
Were there any odd builds like an SL 5.0lt?
The list is endless...
If someone says "how many SS's were built after Aug 77", we should be able to come up with an accurate figure.
Yes, and sure if someone says this is the VIN number of my car, can you tell me where it was first sold? We should be able to access that information as well...
I don't even care if it is not us that holds the info, and maybe Holden's Heritage Group should hold it. I mean really, isn't in fact Holden's Archives anyway???
cheers
Mick
#57
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:09 PM
I think it would be great to know numbder of each model made and paint and trim combinations, but the fact is Holden doesn't hold that information. It was originally stored on fische cards and to transfer it would mean a lot of work. There were not many cards in existance and even less today. If you could pluck just the numbers of trim and paint in each model out without capturing the VIN, engine and chassis numbers, that would be one thing, but if the rest was made common knowledge it becomes an issue. We already know of several faked up cars, and the XU1 guys especially would be worried with people making up tags as it is. Some people have lost some major money, and a few guys are finding themselves at the wrong end of the law.
#58
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:24 PM
I think it would be great to know numbder of each model made and paint and trim combinations, but the fact is Holden doesn't hold that information. It was originally stored on fische cards and to transfer it would mean a lot of work. There were not many cards in existance and even less today. If you could pluck just the numbers of trim and paint in each model out without capturing the VIN, engine and chassis numbers, that would be one thing, but if the rest was made common knowledge it becomes an issue. We already know of several faked up cars, and the XU1 guys especially would be worried with people making up tags as it is. Some people have lost some major money, and a few guys are finding themselves at the wrong end of the law.
No one is doubting that it would be alot of work, but there are people here that would be prepared to do it...
I didn't think that the Engine and Chassis info was on the cards that your friend has??
I am sure that with any database, certain info can be withheld from public view. That would appease those who feel that certain information should remain confidential, and only available after verification of a vehicle.
Just as a matter of interest, how many Fake A9X's have been found in the years since the Torana Performance Handbook was released?? Also, just how did they get the info if it has been "under lock and key"?
Edited by sstorana, 14 February 2010 - 01:25 PM.
#59
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:55 PM
No baron, I am not.
No worries REDTAXI, I understand where you are coming from. It is the dodgy crooks that stuff it for all.
But I also understand where sstorana is coming from. It would look fantastic to have the make/model/colour/engine/etc tabulated without chassis/engine numbers. I would love to do it on a fixed rate.
My reference to the info being "precious" was not a slight on any particular person but the fact it becomes a responsibility/burden like in the "Lord of the Rings". Some times a sole twisting burden for reasons not expected.
With specific regards to REDTAXI's source. As stated it was aquired before the A9X club as personel interest, I can NOT see why this person MUST release this information.
However, member's information forwarded to a club to use in it's day to day running should stay with the club and be transfer on as the people in the committee position change with the elections. Unless the member requests in writing that the information be retracted/erased.
#60
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:02 PM
Geeze... how am I going to turn my LH sedan into an A9X hatch now.... grumble
With an AVATAR like yours and a comment like that you should ban yourself from this thread.
#61
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:24 PM
i can't resist from commenting on this...those of you who remember the movie history of the world part 2..theres seen where mel brooks comes out and says..''it good to be king''....sorry guys i just couldn't resist..
Geeze... how am I going to turn my LH sedan into an A9X hatch now.... grumble
With an AVATAR like yours and a comment like that you should ban yourself from this thread.
#62
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:36 PM
Unfortunately Mick Mc, that is what it's all about isn't it. �And the power attached. �I'm not having a go at you Red, but if someone trust worthy like sstorana were to collate all the details, it wouldn't be released as a full database to the public (I don't think personal issues should cloud this - and I do consider both of you mates)......it's not in his interest finanally........
So said Mr A9X is always the go to person, and no-one else can verify cars in that detail? �sstorana isn't asking for that, he just wants the other details available to determine things that occurred. �It can only be in this persons interest to have someone do this for him anyway.
Grant..
#63
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 08:50 PM
i for one would like to know just how many ss 3300 hatchs and lx slr5000 were made in my conbinations.i would be happy to pay $50.00 + per car to know.
#64
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Posted 14 February 2010 - 09:37 PM
Grant, I see where you are coming from, but whats to stop MR Trustworthy who is given the information from making a copy for his mates, and one of those mates deciding to sell it on ebay...., like thats never been done before, yeah right!
Anyway, I've been told today, sorry guys, it would take years to do and the information does not break the cars down into trim and paint combinations anyway.
As for the second person I mentioned, well yeah, money is one thing, but he uses the information for a certain magazine. There is a member of this forum who used to help a lot of forum members out a while back, unfortunately, they no longer do due to their family situation, but I believe when they offered a copy to someone, he shafted them. I guess thats what happens when you try to help out mates, they shaft you for a few bucks.
Anyway, I've been told today, sorry guys, it would take years to do and the information does not break the cars down into trim and paint combinations anyway.
As for the second person I mentioned, well yeah, money is one thing, but he uses the information for a certain magazine. There is a member of this forum who used to help a lot of forum members out a while back, unfortunately, they no longer do due to their family situation, but I believe when they offered a copy to someone, he shafted them. I guess thats what happens when you try to help out mates, they shaft you for a few bucks.
#65
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 12:31 AM
and what would we get for these $$$$?
and what's to stop a dodgey person stealing the register and getting the info on where any number of geniune l34's and a9x's are stored?
There has to be a way to do it. Safetly getting all the info out there so we can sort this cr^p out once n for all. I wonder how much drama the blue oval guys have with their GT's?
#66
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 02:29 AM
There has to be a way to do it. Safetly getting all the info out there so we can sort this cr^p out once n for all. I wonder how much drama the blue oval guys have with their GT's?
I don't think the Ford info is open to the public, it's available through certain historians who have researched and put together data bases etc but they won't just give it out to anyone.
ck1971
#67
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:30 AM
I am going out on a limb now and not accusing anyone in particular but through experience know that the more knowledge some people have the more they bend the rules to remanufacture some particular cars.. in this world sorry you cant trust anyone. Just like politicians.
#68
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:14 AM
There has to be a way to do it. Safetly getting all the info out there so we can sort this cr^p out once n for all. I wonder how much drama the blue oval guys have with their GT's?
I don't think the Ford info is open to the public, it's available through certain historians who have researched and put together data bases etc but they won't just give it out to anyone.
ck1971
there are now more gt falcon now that what there ever was..let alone GTHOs..shannons have more GTHOs on there books than was there was ever made according to one there salesman...which never surprised me..
#69
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:31 PM
I think that too many people are getting wrapped around the axles with the info, "getting into the wrong hands"!!
We all know too well what happened when the LC/LJ info was in the so called "right hands", didn't we??
Hell, we could always delete any ref to the L34's and A9X's and pass that info to the A9X Club (IMO the rightful custodians of that info).. Wouldn't that solve your problems??
You see, what I am talking about is this;
On an individual request, if the person wishes to know the details about his car, then the cars' ownership needs to be verified. Who would do this??? This can be done by, one ot the registered Torana Club's Public Officer and perhaps a person from the Forums.. That way it is verified by two individual persons.
The way that HDT verify proof of ownership of the old cars is by production of registration papers, photos, etc. So if someone said, "Here is my VIN and Chassis number, can you give me anymore background info?" then there should be no harm in telling them when the car was sold and by what dealer, etc. The info from that person could be kept, and if a car does come up as a fake later on, then their info is passed to the police..
The main reason for access to this information is not so we start making fakes, it is so that we can form some accurate data as to the breakdown of these cars, etc.. I am still waiting for someone to tell me how many fakes have surfaced since the handbook was released.. I would suggest it may have been a handful at best and how long did it take for someone to realise that they were fakes??
So who gets to finance such a project? We will never really know the cost until someone makes the enquiry... As Graham said, costs could be recovered by way of an enquiry fee.
So who gets to do it? There are a few people here that I would consider, for example DR Terry. I would do it but i feel that there are one or two who just wouldn't like that idea, due to personal issues. I would like to see it attached to the Forums where it can me monitored by a number of people and the fees go to supporting this site!!
At the end of the day, 98% of people only want this info for good reasons. If we make the info available, but restrict its access, then that should ease alot of concerns..
I also think that for someone to have this info for twenty odd years, and not come up with some real data output, is very sad indeed..
cheers
Mick
We all know too well what happened when the LC/LJ info was in the so called "right hands", didn't we??
Hell, we could always delete any ref to the L34's and A9X's and pass that info to the A9X Club (IMO the rightful custodians of that info).. Wouldn't that solve your problems??
You see, what I am talking about is this;
On an individual request, if the person wishes to know the details about his car, then the cars' ownership needs to be verified. Who would do this??? This can be done by, one ot the registered Torana Club's Public Officer and perhaps a person from the Forums.. That way it is verified by two individual persons.
The way that HDT verify proof of ownership of the old cars is by production of registration papers, photos, etc. So if someone said, "Here is my VIN and Chassis number, can you give me anymore background info?" then there should be no harm in telling them when the car was sold and by what dealer, etc. The info from that person could be kept, and if a car does come up as a fake later on, then their info is passed to the police..
The main reason for access to this information is not so we start making fakes, it is so that we can form some accurate data as to the breakdown of these cars, etc.. I am still waiting for someone to tell me how many fakes have surfaced since the handbook was released.. I would suggest it may have been a handful at best and how long did it take for someone to realise that they were fakes??
So who gets to finance such a project? We will never really know the cost until someone makes the enquiry... As Graham said, costs could be recovered by way of an enquiry fee.
So who gets to do it? There are a few people here that I would consider, for example DR Terry. I would do it but i feel that there are one or two who just wouldn't like that idea, due to personal issues. I would like to see it attached to the Forums where it can me monitored by a number of people and the fees go to supporting this site!!
At the end of the day, 98% of people only want this info for good reasons. If we make the info available, but restrict its access, then that should ease alot of concerns..
I also think that for someone to have this info for twenty odd years, and not come up with some real data output, is very sad indeed..
cheers
Mick
Edited by sstorana, 15 February 2010 - 07:32 PM.
#70
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 07:58 PM
sstorana(Mick)
I strongly suggest YOU should look into running a National Torana Club/Register.
Ask people to forward their torana details for you to tabulate.
Simple?
Those of you who ARE interested as expressed above should forward details as you see fit to Mick.
Good luck
I strongly suggest YOU should look into running a National Torana Club/Register.
Ask people to forward their torana details for you to tabulate.
Simple?
Those of you who ARE interested as expressed above should forward details as you see fit to Mick.
Good luck
#71
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:15 PM
sstorana(Mick)
I strongly suggest YOU should look into running a National Torana Club/Register.
Ask people to forward their torana details for you to tabulate.
Simple?
Those of you who ARE interested as expressed above should forward details as you see fit to Mick.
Good luck
Baron,
I have never said that we shoud have a register of the cars and who owns them.. To me, that personal information (who and where the cars are) is more dangerous than the original holden records..
Edited by sstorana, 15 February 2010 - 08:16 PM.
#72
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:47 PM
No personnel, just the details of what IS out there from the compliance plates ..........engine/chassis number is option.
Info like the vin code (minus the numbers is optional)
Model
Paint/trim number
engine
Trans diff
etc
Make a template of the info you would like?
Import it into excel...........there you go...easy!
Info like the vin code (minus the numbers is optional)
Model
Paint/trim number
engine
Trans diff
etc
Make a template of the info you would like?
Import it into excel...........there you go...easy!
#73
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:51 PM
No personnel, just the details of what IS out there from the compliance plates ..........engine/chassis number is option.
Info like the vin code (minus the numbers is optional)
Model
Paint/trim number
engine
Trans diff
etc
Make a template of the info you would like?
Import it into excel...........there you go...easy!
I understand what you are saying and yes it could be done and it wouldn't be that hard, but it still doesn't give us the historical data about what was actually built.
Edited by sstorana, 15 February 2010 - 08:51 PM.
#74
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:10 PM
is anything being done with the owners ?or builders of these fake cars ? or a they just kept a record of in the forums .
What about the new torana owners that might not be on the forums, who are unaware of a car being known to have a ?????? past .
And is there a goverment body interested in this behavior ,cause its leaving one hell of a bad taste in my mouth as i have always been into the drag/modified car seen up until 4 years ago and in that time i have 21 torana,s now 3 are A9X, 7 SS HATCHES, AND 4 SLR 5000,S and 2 gtr,s the rest are just SLR,s or UC,s THAT HAVE COST ME GOOD MONEY to own .
i,m thinking of ditching quite a few as the fake cars are popping up more often, and from what ive found with very minimal digging is that its the guys with the knowledge that are doing it more than the guys without it!!!!!
The american muscle is looking more attractive all the time .
What about the new torana owners that might not be on the forums, who are unaware of a car being known to have a ?????? past .
And is there a goverment body interested in this behavior ,cause its leaving one hell of a bad taste in my mouth as i have always been into the drag/modified car seen up until 4 years ago and in that time i have 21 torana,s now 3 are A9X, 7 SS HATCHES, AND 4 SLR 5000,S and 2 gtr,s the rest are just SLR,s or UC,s THAT HAVE COST ME GOOD MONEY to own .
i,m thinking of ditching quite a few as the fake cars are popping up more often, and from what ive found with very minimal digging is that its the guys with the knowledge that are doing it more than the guys without it!!!!!
The american muscle is looking more attractive all the time .
#75
rodomo
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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:23 PM
False.Gday all,
A mate has a flamenco red 4 Dr A9X which has been off the road for the past 15 yrs. When he brought the car he was told that A9X motors didn't have engine numbers.
Is this true or false ? Brett.
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