a must read for everyone
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_lx5008_
, May 12 2010 07:22 PM
102 replies to this topic
#1
_lx5008_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:22 PM
hi all, got this from another forum. the way i read it is that rares and gm have us by the balls. saying you can only buy holden ford etc resto parts only from rares. just like in the USA. just like to get peoples thoughts. with the way other people are doing parts/rubbers better than every before it seems not fair.rares have done a great job over the years but these days it seems there are better products out there.
#2
_niterida_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:30 PM
Sounds good to me - using the original factory tooling means they will be able to produce the exact part - not just a close copy. Well until the tool wears out of course.
#3
_lx5008_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:34 PM
they dont have the tooling for old torana stuff only VT commodore onwards.
#4
_Skapinad_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:37 PM
thats ok, we will thank them in 30 years time !
#5
MRLXSS
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:38 PM
http://www.holdenres...ionparts.com.au
I can't see it as a bad thing, its good that the main company is finally seeing that there is a market for these old parts
I can't see it as a bad thing, its good that the main company is finally seeing that there is a market for these old parts
Edited by MRLXSS, 12 May 2010 - 07:39 PM.
#6
_sstorana_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:01 PM
http://www.holdenrestorationparts.com.au
I can't see it as a bad thing, its good that the main company is finally seeing that there is a market for these old parts
That's all well and good, but the fact that Holden are stating that:
"Holden Restoration Parts by Rare Spares" are the only GM-Holden endorsed restoration products in the market.
That right there is totally wrong in my view!
Not withstanding what I do, but what about the likes of Brad Merrick, who has been reproducing parts for the XU-1's for 20 odd years, with GMH approvals?? What, because he isn't as big, or doesn't play as much golf, he doesn't get to put his products on the GMH table to say, "hey, my products are worthy of your recognition!!"
Go to the website and see the catalogue of approved products already. I am sure that people have had issues about quality over some of these in the past.. and now that are "Holden Approved"...
#7
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:04 PM
I don't read it as stopping other companies producing stuff, I certainly hope not because some people out there have done a much better job with some items then the rares option. I think it would be hard to try and put those people out of business now
#8
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:15 PM
I don't read it as stopping other companies producing stuff, I certainly hope not because some people out there have done a much better job with some items then the rares option. I think it would be hard to try and put those people out of business now
Mick
I can tell you now, that GMH will not approve any requests to reproduce anything with their logos on it. That means that wheel trim decals, grille badges, Decals, etc can not be remade. They (GMH) have even stated to me that any requests to use their logos, is now through RSP.. So, efectively, they have sold/ given the rights to these logos to RSP.. which is interesting in itself, seeing that GM Corp in America own them..
What it means is that if I think that I can do a part better that RSP, for eg the wheel trim decals, then I cannot even attempt to.. so there goes any desire to make a product to the best possible standard.. You/we have to live with what they make..
that's not right..
Edited by sstorana, 12 May 2010 - 08:20 PM.
#9
dattoman
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:25 PM
Or if they don't want to make it... you can't either
Maybe we need to approach Les to get the forum shirts made so we can have the logos on them
Maybe we need to approach Les to get the forum shirts made so we can have the logos on them
#10
_HZUte-efi-VS5L_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:41 PM
Unbelievable!
What about Sandman Stripes Screen Printed? Guess I will can that project. Goodluck to anyone wanting Sandman Stripes.
What about the LX SS Stripes. Guess I will can them too. Goodluck to anyone with a LX SS.
What about VN SS Stripes. Screen Printed like the original. Guess I will stop doing them also. People will have to use Rares poor quality vinyl cut ones. Oh. Thats if they have them in stock.
Goodluck to anyone in the future wanting good quality parts.
Remember this moment and be sure to pass it onto you kids. They day Rare Spares ruined it for all Holden Restorers. 20th May 2010.
Cheers
Jason
What about Sandman Stripes Screen Printed? Guess I will can that project. Goodluck to anyone wanting Sandman Stripes.
What about the LX SS Stripes. Guess I will can them too. Goodluck to anyone with a LX SS.
What about VN SS Stripes. Screen Printed like the original. Guess I will stop doing them also. People will have to use Rares poor quality vinyl cut ones. Oh. Thats if they have them in stock.
Goodluck to anyone in the future wanting good quality parts.
Remember this moment and be sure to pass it onto you kids. They day Rare Spares ruined it for all Holden Restorers. 20th May 2010.
Cheers
Jason
Edited by HZUte-efi-VS5L, 12 May 2010 - 08:42 PM.
#11
_sstorana_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:52 PM
Unbelievable!
What about Sandman Stripes Screen Printed? Guess I will can that project. Goodluck to anyone wanting Sandman Stripes.
What about the LX SS Stripes. Guess I will can them too. Goodluck to anyone with a LX SS.
What about VN SS Stripes. Screen Printed like the original. Guess I will stop doing them also. People will have to use Rares poor quality vinyl cut ones. Oh. Thats if they have them in stock.
Goodluck to anyone in the future wanting good quality parts.
Remember this moment and be sure to pass it onto you kids. They day Rare Spares ruined it for all Holden Restorers. 20th May 2010.
Cheers
Jason
The worse thing is Jason that even if yours/mine/whoevers products are just as good and in some cases, superior in quality, there is no avenue to get your parts recognised.. That is BS!!
#12
_HZUte-efi-VS5L_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:55 PM
exactly. As said goodluck to anyone wanting to do up a holdnen.
Its very sad!
Its very sad!
#13
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:00 PM
Well, that sucks. So, does this mean items like the GTS SLR steering wheels will ever improve, or will they continue as they are?
#14
_HZUte-efi-VS5L_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:08 PM
stay as they are id say mate. The second hand market is going to be huge!
#15
lcgtr1970
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:12 PM
Mick
I can tell you now, that GMH will not approve any requests to reproduce anything with their logos on it. That means that wheel trim decals, grille badges, Decals, etc can not be remade. They (GMH) have even stated to me that any requests to use their logos, is now through RSP.. So, efectively, they have sold/ given the rights to these logos to RSP.. which is interesting in itself, seeing that GM Corp in America own them..
What it means is that if I think that I can do a part better that RSP, for eg the wheel trim decals, then I cannot even attempt to.. so there goes any desire to make a product to the best possible standard.. You/we have to live with what they make..
that's not right..
i didnt see the big deal til you posted that up...i didnt even think of the fact that youd need approval to use the logo...that sucks big time...
an option though is to make an underground blackmarket for the repro parts that are made without approval and to a better quality...only sold thru certain avenues where everyone denies knowing where the parts came from....shhhhh dont tell anyone....
#16
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:21 PM
Well, that sucks. So, does this mean items like the GTS SLR steering wheels will ever improve, or will they continue as they are?
In this instance, probably not as there are no logos, however, depending on the horn pad, there could be issues.
Here is an example that has happened to me, and I have known about this, and have been fighting this since October last year.
I wanted to remake the SS and SLR Wheel trims. If you check the old threads, it was something that I asked RSP to do some 2-3 years ago..
No biggy, I thought I will just approach GMH for approval to remake the wheeltrim decal because, in my opinion it is not good enough, and secondly, because I was looking at remaking the whole wheel trim, it stood to reason to get these done as well.
Well the answer came back that i couldn't get approval because the only people to have access to these sorts of things is RSP..
So, in effect, if RSp don't wish to make something, or don't feel there is enough money in it, some parts. for eg, the plastic cap on the SL/E alloy rims, will probably never see the light of day.. and that's a shame..
Here's something else to consider... Raraes have been in this industry for just over 33 years, they have alot of items, and with every year, that list grows. There is no way that they can support the restoration car parts industry alone. It is just too big of an ask for any one company. That is why others need to be able to be a part of this program!!
You Can't Restore A Car With Just Rare Spares!!
Edited by sstorana, 12 May 2010 - 09:34 PM.
#17
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:30 PM
Wouldn't GM also own the copyright on guards, bonnets and any other part they manufactured or have these lapsed and only the logo copyright remains?
It appears the deal does not stop anyone from negotiating with Rare Spares.
It appears the deal does not stop anyone from negotiating with Rare Spares.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 12 May 2010 - 09:31 PM.
#18
_sstorana_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:33 PM
Wouldn't GM also own the copyright on guards, bonnets and any other part they manufactured or have these lapsed and only the logo copyright remains?
Again, it depends what it is.. most of the Torana stuff is ok, when you get into the later vehicles, around the VB Commodores and up, the items that have registered design marks on them, then no, you can't..
Edited by sstorana, 12 May 2010 - 09:47 PM.
#19
_lx5008_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:33 PM
You Can't Restore A Car With Just Rare Spares!!
if you want your doors and tailgate to shut
if you want your doors and tailgate to shut
#20
_REDLJ_
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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:52 PM
The motor industry has been based on competition through vehicle engineering, technology and sales. With a theory of Win on Sunday and Sell on Monday.
The reproduction parts market should be the same ......................and to the victor goes the spoils. And we as enthusiasts have a choice!!!!!
The reproduction parts market should be the same ......................and to the victor goes the spoils. And we as enthusiasts have a choice!!!!!
#21
_sstorana_
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Posted 13 May 2010 - 07:42 AM
I would be very interested to hear what Les has to say in relation to approvals to other manufacturers to remake items with the Holden Logos?
Is it going to be a matter of no approvals for others or are they going to look at this with a view of getting more products out there for the Holden enthusiasts, that they would not neccessarily remake?
At the end of the day, we are there to provide the best possible products to the public.
cheers
Mick
Is it going to be a matter of no approvals for others or are they going to look at this with a view of getting more products out there for the Holden enthusiasts, that they would not neccessarily remake?
At the end of the day, we are there to provide the best possible products to the public.
cheers
Mick
#22
Statler
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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:12 AM
Am i reading this wrong, or does this only apply to parts with the Holden logo on them?
Is there a logo on the SS/Sandman decals?.... or the SL/R horn pad?
At the end of the day, Holden owns the rights to the logo [although it is now under the control of a third party], & therefor they should have control over how it it used.
Copyrite laws wern't invented yesterday!
Is there a logo on the SS/Sandman decals?.... or the SL/R horn pad?
At the end of the day, Holden owns the rights to the logo [although it is now under the control of a third party], & therefor they should have control over how it it used.
Copyrite laws wern't invented yesterday!
#23
MRLXSS
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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:48 AM
http://www.holdenres...ionparts.com.au
I can't see it as a bad thing, its good that the main company is finally seeing that there is a market for these old parts
That's all well and good, but the fact that Holden are stating that:
"Holden Restoration Parts by Rare Spares" are the only GM-Holden endorsed restoration products in the market.
That right there is totally wrong in my view!
I totally agree with that mate! And I hope that there will be other "Holden Restoration Parts" (Not by rare spares). I wonder how long Rares have been trying to get Holden on board with some support?
The longer you keep selling your top quality after market gear, the sooner i reckon Holden will be coming to you trying to chuck their logo on it and asking for some profits! LOL
Now i guess we can start complaining about the quality of the parts direct to Holden, they might put the pressure on Rares to fix their products.
#24
_sstorana_
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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:52 AM
Am i reading this wrong, or does this only apply to parts with the Holden logo on them?
Is there a logo on the SS/Sandman decals?.... or the SL/R horn pad?
At the end of the day, Holden owns the rights to the logo [although it is now under the control of a third party], & therefor they should have control over how it it used.
Copyrite laws wern't invented yesterday!
With regards to logos, yes it does apply to them.. So the way it stand, anyone remaking these items, is in breach, regardless of the quality.
I am sure that the XU-1 guys will be happy that they will only have to the choice of RSP GTR XU-1 decals, badges etc..
You obviously are happy with the quality of their items and I am happy for you. I think that others may feel different and would like the ability of choice!!
#25
Statler
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Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:41 AM
My interpretation of the original post, is that RSP are now going to be getting GMH's original tooling.
That has to be a good thing for VT+ restorers in 30yrs time, if the trend continues.
GMH will no longer need to store the old tooling; it wont go to the scrap yard; & parts will be availiable as the market dictates. Just like the US..maybe.
Oh! If they had only done this with all the tooling!
Imagine buying brand spanking new Torana panels from Holden today?
I would like to think, that as technology continues, replacement panels & such would be remanufactured from better materials. For example, better anti-corrosive steels ect.
I made no reference to quality of any supplier & my happiness is boundless. 
By 'logo', are you refering to all stickers/transfers/decals/badges?....or simply anything with the companys copywritten, patiented & registered insigna?
It sounds like GMH are adopting some of the parent companys operating systems as they huddle up for the crisis ahead. Clearly the system seems to work ok in the US. There are many supplier/manufacturers of replacement/restoration auto parts for a large array of vechicles.
I don't know if our laws cater for such a system though.
That has to be a good thing for VT+ restorers in 30yrs time, if the trend continues.
GMH will no longer need to store the old tooling; it wont go to the scrap yard; & parts will be availiable as the market dictates. Just like the US..maybe.
Oh! If they had only done this with all the tooling!
Imagine buying brand spanking new Torana panels from Holden today?
I would like to think, that as technology continues, replacement panels & such would be remanufactured from better materials. For example, better anti-corrosive steels ect.
You obviously are happy with the quality of their items and I am happy for you. I think that others may feel different and would like the ability of choice!!
I made no reference to quality of any supplier & my happiness is boundless. By 'logo', are you refering to all stickers/transfers/decals/badges?....or simply anything with the companys copywritten, patiented & registered insigna?
It sounds like GMH are adopting some of the parent companys operating systems as they huddle up for the crisis ahead. Clearly the system seems to work ok in the US. There are many supplier/manufacturers of replacement/restoration auto parts for a large array of vechicles.
I don't know if our laws cater for such a system though.
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