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push button start

Started by _marshallLX_ , May 24 2010 07:39 PM

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77 replies to this topic

#26 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:17 PM

I was thinking of rigging one up in the blue car, where I still had a key ignition but the actual starter motor circuit was separate. I'm not actually sure why I want that, but for some reason I do... lol

So you can crank up oil pressure before you fire it.

Getting a head of pressure is one thing but the crank actually spinning fast enough to actually float is another.

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#27 Heath

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:55 PM

But there's no feasible option that's a step above that is there?

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#28 rodomo

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:50 PM

I have it like this on the Grease Slapper only, not a road car.
The Grease Slapper can sit for a couple of months between starts sometimes.
The last car I remember having this feature would have been early (60's) Mini's with the start button on the floor?

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#29 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:21 PM

But there's no feasible option that's a step above that is there?

You can use an Accusump with an electric control valve to pressurise the oil system before staring the engine. When you switch the engine off the electric valve closes which traps the pressurised oil in the Accusump. When you switch the ignition back on the valve opens and the pressurised oil is released to prime the engine. You can either count to 5 between switching the ignition on and engaging the starter or fit a 5 second delay relay on the starter circuit.

You also get the protection from the Accusump if the oil pump looses pressure during hard cornering.

I was planning to fit the above system on my hatch but I could not find the room.

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#30 _Squarepants_

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:24 PM

I have a push start button in mine. You must turn the key as if you are going to start the car, and push the button at the same time. More of a safety feature than something to impress people.

That's how mine is setup, it's wired into the original auto neutral start switch. I also have a switch to bypass the button if I just want to use the key (good for when playing with the engine and don't want to have to get in the car to start it).

It's purely wank factor, there's no practical reason for my car having a start button, but I love it.

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#31 _torbirdie_

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:26 PM

I have a push start button in mine. You must turn the key as if you are going to start the car, and push the button at the same time. More of a safety feature than something to impress people.

Sounds more like a hazard feature!

Engine cuts out while you are on the move and you have to take both hands off the wheel to start it?

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#32 _Squarepants_

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:46 PM

If your engine cuts out while on the move then the starter motor isn't gonna do you any good. Ignition or fuel supply failure.

Edited by Squarepants, 26 May 2010 - 09:50 PM.

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#33 _torbirdie_

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:23 PM

If your engine cuts out while on the move then the starter motor isn't gonna do you any good. Ignition or fuel supply failure.

So you've never had an engine cut out when you are just coasting/slowing down to go around a corner or to go around a roundabout, it doesnt have to be a catastrophic failure?

Mine has done it the last two mornings when cold, yes its an auto and its a ten year old commodore,, it has restarted on command.....and I didnt need to let go of the steering wheel while still coasting around the roundabout.

Im sure even if it were legal no manufacturer would build such an obvious death feature into their car as both hands off the wheel to restart the motor.

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#34 mitchg

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:12 PM

Your cars got problems. Mine never takes more than 2 seconds to kick over and why would I be stupid enough to take both hands off the wheel if im mid corner? Why not let it roll till its safe or to a stop? Just use common sense and it doesnt have to be a deadly feature.

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#35 rodomo

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:39 PM

Your cars got problems.

You can't trust the gauge in these at around 1/4 tank reguardless of what the trip computer tells you.

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#36 _Gunmetal LH_

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:39 PM

It was once VERY handy having a button on my junker VB. Cold morning, stalled halfway through an intersection. Just pushed the button and put my foot down on the accelerator. Being auto I didn't have to select neutral, just oops, vroom, going again. Would've been 'wearing' 2 cars and a bus if I didn't get going...

Oh, and it feels like a racecar for that 1 second.

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#37 _torbirdie_

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:23 AM

Your cars got problems. Mine never takes more than 2 seconds to kick over and why would I be stupid enough to take both hands off the wheel if im mid corner? Why not let it roll till its safe or to a stop? Just use common sense and it doesnt have to be a deadly feature.

let the car roll to a stop in the middle of an intersection or jump on the brakes so you can restart it? , maybe youve got a truck up your clacker, whatever, perhaps some imagination - installing a feature that wont let you steer when you need to restart the engine is asking for trouble no matter which way you cut it, have you checked with authorities that it is legal?, please point out any manufacturers that have this feature or have ever had this feature.
There is a good reason why they provide neutral as a possible start position on an auto gearbox, rather than just the park postion, and from ^ a good reason why the starter shouldnt be operable when the vehicle is in gear

Edited by torbirdie, 27 May 2010 - 12:25 AM.

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#38 mitchg

The guy with the Torailer

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:26 AM

Yes my car is an auto, and can only be started in nuetral and park. In fact the push button start, and the other 2 kill switches are on my engineer papers.

Edited by mitchg, 27 May 2010 - 12:27 AM.

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#39 _torbirdie_

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:31 AM

let the car roll to a stop in the middle of an intersection or jump on the brakes so you can restart it? , maybe youve got a truck up your clacker, whatever, perhaps some imagination - installing a feature that wont let you steer when you need to restart the engine is asking for trouble no matter which way you cut it, have you checked with authorities that it is legal?, please point out any manufacturers that have this feature or have ever had this feature.
There is a good reason why they provide neutral as a possible start position on an auto gearbox, rather than just the park postion, and from ^ a good reason why the starter shouldnt be operable when the vehicle is in gear

you're going a bit overboard, apply the same situation to the engine dying from "catastrophic failure" you're not going to be able to restart it either way.
the way you're talking anyone would think that it's set-up to disable to steering or something.

atleast if you have to use the key aswell you don't have to worry about someone pushing the button why the car is running.

Josh fortunately catastrophic engine failure isnt as common as engines on autos stalling when approaching intersections on cold mornings, coasting downhill etc, and you're right, the only thing that could possibly be achieved by needing two hands to start the engine is to disable steering!

Josh have you given some thought as to why cars must be able to be started in the neutral position,..

so one can start it without having to park it.

Ill end it there, if its legal-fine, but I seriously doubt it, otherwise its just a mod that can create a dangerous situation.

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#40 rodomo

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 05:56 AM

please point out any manufacturers that have this feature or have ever had this feature.

A lot of cars these days you have to turn the key back to the lock position before you can attempt to re-crank. Some you have to pull the key out and re-fit it.

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#41 76lxhatch

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:30 AM

So if we can learn anything from this, its that manual gearboxes are better :tease:

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#42 _niterida_

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:37 PM

and that push button start is a wank Posted Image

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#43 _kaz from adelaide_

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:50 PM

SO PUSH BUTTON START ON A TORRIE WOULD = CLI TORRIE US

:fighting:

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#44 _Squarepants_

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:26 PM

My car is manual, and no it's never cut out while coasting into a corner, even though it does run like a pig.

Even so, for you to restart your car you have to select neutral, with your left hand, then turn the key, with your right hand, then reselect drive, with your left hand...

I'd just get my car to run properly if I were you.

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#45 _Gunmetal LH_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 01:19 AM

Here's mine in my $250 VB. 2 switches and 2 wires bypassing everything. Racecar start button to match the racecar looking dents. :cry:

DSC00113.JPG 1.72MB 25 downloads

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#46 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 08:18 AM

I think anything that requires both hands to restart a stalled engine is a serious safety hazard. I'd definitely be having a rethink about that one.

If you want to pump a little oil before firing the engine up from cold (at least with a carburetted engine) just crank it for a few seconds before giving the throttle a pump. Though I admit this mightn't work so well for people who live in warmer places than me (ie. just about everyone).

If you really have to have a way of cranking it without spark then I think the safest option would be a momentary push-button switch that breaks the ignition circuit when pressed. That way everything else works as normal and you don't have to think about what you're doing in a stressful situation. And if anyone needs to borrow the car they aren't likely to end up stalled and confused in the middle of an intersection.. Of course all the above is mainly related to street driven cars.

The only starter button I have is a hand held one with 2 metre leads and alligator clips. It's great for setting valve lash and static timing and works on any car..

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#47 _The Baron_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:10 AM

But there's no feasible option that's a step above that is there?
You can use an Accusump with an electric control valve to pressurise the oil system before staring the engine. When you switch the engine off the electric valve closes which traps the pressurised oil in the Accusump. When you switch the ignition back on the valve opens and the pressurised oil is released to prime the engine. You can either count to 5 between switching the ignition on and engaging the starter or fit a 5 second delay relay on the starter circuit.

You also get the protection from the Accusump if the oil pump looses pressure during hard cornering.

I was planning to fit the above system on my hatch but I could not find the room.

That ACCUSUMP is a very interesting device, basically as it's name suggests it is an accumulator with function enhancing check valves. Neat!

Only draw back would be, depending on it's size is the imact on the level in the sump.

For example if the accumulator was 2ltr and the sump was 5ltr. Once the accumulator was filled, the sump would only hold 3 ltrs which would exasperate to cornering issue!

If the accumulator and sump was full and the accumulator discharged, the sump could hold 7 ltrs causing possible(?)minor issues until the accumulator was recharged.

What would be nice is an electric motor driven pump, good for about 20-30 psi to pre-charge the lube system. That could be a push button arrangment. As it would draw from the sump, it would not affect overall levels. :badabing:

Hopefully not priced for V8 supercars. :<_<:

Edited by The Baron, 29 May 2010 - 11:12 AM.

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#48 _threeblindmice_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:29 AM

Nothing wrong with start buttons , Holdens used them for years . If you don't want to use two hands to start a car , one of my cars has a foot operated ,floor mounted start button , factory fitted .

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#49 _Gunmetal LH_

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:32 AM

Floor mounted start button? I've never heard of that? What car?

Here's something about an accumulator...
http://www.cardwells.../MenuId/74.aspx

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#50 rodomo

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:37 AM

The last car I remember having this feature would have been early (60's) Mini's with the start button on the floor?

A lot of cars these days you have to turn the key back to the lock position before you can attempt to re-crank. Some you have to pull the key out and re-fit it.

Late Saab for 1