What would that be in F degrees.
Thanks Chris
How do i keep my torrie cool?
Started by
_wildsix_
, May 04 2006 01:21 PM
58 replies to this topic
#27
_TORANR AMORE_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 01:52 PM
110 degrees Celcius is 260 degrees Farenheight, although I wouldn't push it past boiling point (100 degrees Celcius / 212 degrees Farenheight). As you know the Radiator cap will release water into the overflow at 100 degrees celcius.
As for the original question at the start of the thread:
I know the theory, I have my opinions and yet my experiences with these matters have been the contrary.
I've found that taking the thermostat completely out only makes improvements in certian circumstances/applications. I guess it has it's purpose, to allow time for the water in the radiator to cool down whilst the water in the engine heats up to a point and then the thermostat opens again and cool water moves into the engine and hot water enters the radiator for cooling and so on. I've found many a times with various cars that it's best to keep the thermostat in. Hovever you will need to experiment on the type of thermostat (the temperature that it opens at) and test the car until you get the best result. I've only had 2 cars where taking the thermostat out completely made an improvement in heat reduction and they were both Gemenis, whereas the 6 Torrys that I've had run better with the thermostats in (they are both 6cyl & 8cyl various cui and radiator sizes). This is an easier solution (and cheaper) to start on other than fooling around with fans and radiators, you can work on them later.
With fans, I always recommend a good fast/strong electric thermo fan (my opinion) with the shroud (a must), the radiator you have seems fine.
Make sure you have plenty of flow and plenty of room for flow in the engine bay whilst the bonnet is down. raise the bonnet and the back or use a scoop if need be. If there are stone guards bolted on the inner guard, take them off, etc etc, stuff like that.
As for the original question at the start of the thread:
I know the theory, I have my opinions and yet my experiences with these matters have been the contrary.
I've found that taking the thermostat completely out only makes improvements in certian circumstances/applications. I guess it has it's purpose, to allow time for the water in the radiator to cool down whilst the water in the engine heats up to a point and then the thermostat opens again and cool water moves into the engine and hot water enters the radiator for cooling and so on. I've found many a times with various cars that it's best to keep the thermostat in. Hovever you will need to experiment on the type of thermostat (the temperature that it opens at) and test the car until you get the best result. I've only had 2 cars where taking the thermostat out completely made an improvement in heat reduction and they were both Gemenis, whereas the 6 Torrys that I've had run better with the thermostats in (they are both 6cyl & 8cyl various cui and radiator sizes). This is an easier solution (and cheaper) to start on other than fooling around with fans and radiators, you can work on them later.
With fans, I always recommend a good fast/strong electric thermo fan (my opinion) with the shroud (a must), the radiator you have seems fine.
Make sure you have plenty of flow and plenty of room for flow in the engine bay whilst the bonnet is down. raise the bonnet and the back or use a scoop if need be. If there are stone guards bolted on the inner guard, take them off, etc etc, stuff like that.
#28
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 02:52 PM
I think Torana more must of been dozing when he wrote^.110 degrees Celcius is 260 degrees Farenheight, although I wouldn't push it past boiling point (100 degrees Celcius / 212 degrees Farenheight). As you know the Radiator cap will release water into the overflow at 100 degrees celcius.
110C is 230F
The temp that the water comes out of radiator cap/overflow depends on whether the system is a recovery type or not.
The water can come out at quite mild temps 70-80C in a recovery type due to expansion of the water releasing the cap.
In a non recovery type cap, are rated at ~13-15psi, the boiling pt will increase by about 1.8C per psi. So the coolant getting released will exit at temps greater than 100C, more if glycol is used.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 08 May 2006 - 03:02 PM.
#29
_TORANR AMORE_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 03:20 PM
not dozing, just a typo at work, trying to be discrete with the boss constantly walking past, but yeah, 110C=230F, from the Nokia phone (converter in applications).
I'm assuming no coolant,.. just water.
I don't use coolant, Just anti-corrosion treatment.
I'm assuming no coolant,.. just water.
I don't use coolant, Just anti-corrosion treatment.
Edited by TORANR AMORE, 08 May 2006 - 03:23 PM.
#30
_wildsix_
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 09:45 PM
OK, just put a run of the mill 190F thermostat in and went for some more test driving.
6 blade fix fan install aswell.
While driving around the traps we could tell when the thermostat was opening and closing by the needle movement, nothing serious, all within limits.
But when we had a constant speed above 100km/hr it went upto 210F and didnt recover once we slowed back down, it stayed around the 200F mark. When it was running hot we pulled over and switched the thermofan on, it had little effect.
Once we got home we did all the usual tests for leaks and nothing was found to be out of normal. The engine was hot but not boiling. The 6 blade fan is drawing a shit load of air thru alone, not including the amount of the flick of a switch 12inch thermo.
Two things come to mind-
Double check the operation of the temp sender and
While the engine is at low revs the 190F themostat and 6 blade fan are marginal (flucuating temp needle), while at higher revs the heat of the coolant isnt dissapating enough, pointing again at the capacity of the radiator.
Going to see a RAD man tomorrow.
Thanks guys we're getting there.
6 blade fix fan install aswell.
While driving around the traps we could tell when the thermostat was opening and closing by the needle movement, nothing serious, all within limits.
But when we had a constant speed above 100km/hr it went upto 210F and didnt recover once we slowed back down, it stayed around the 200F mark. When it was running hot we pulled over and switched the thermofan on, it had little effect.
Once we got home we did all the usual tests for leaks and nothing was found to be out of normal. The engine was hot but not boiling. The 6 blade fan is drawing a shit load of air thru alone, not including the amount of the flick of a switch 12inch thermo.
Two things come to mind-
Double check the operation of the temp sender and
While the engine is at low revs the 190F themostat and 6 blade fan are marginal (flucuating temp needle), while at higher revs the heat of the coolant isnt dissapating enough, pointing again at the capacity of the radiator.
Going to see a RAD man tomorrow.
Thanks guys we're getting there.
#31
Tiny
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Posted 08 May 2006 - 09:59 PM
Wildsix.. Sounds to me like your radiator is innefiicient... wether thats because its blocked, stuffed or a crappy core... I dont know.. But i'd say your up for a good quality core!! ( remeber that bigger *thicker* isnt always better airflow through teh cores can be reduced if you go more rows).
Best of luck mate!
Best of luck mate!
#32
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 01:26 AM
sounds like your loosing too much water through boiling
check rad cap and get the cooling system pressure tested
you also may wana make sure your thermos are running the right way
tom
check rad cap and get the cooling system pressure tested
you also may wana make sure your thermos are running the right way
tom
#33
_wildsix_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 10:41 AM
The Rad man agreed that there isnt enough volume in the present setup to keep it cool at high revs.
Went to the wreckers and had a look at the vb-vk radiators, they will fit, but a bit modifing is required. I know a few of you guys have done this, but cant find any info on it in these new forums. I need to touch, feel, see.
What is the volume of the commodore radiator?
Oh, for the previous posts- Its not loosing coolant, just getting very hot.
Went to the wreckers and had a look at the vb-vk radiators, they will fit, but a bit modifing is required. I know a few of you guys have done this, but cant find any info on it in these new forums. I need to touch, feel, see.
What is the volume of the commodore radiator?
Oh, for the previous posts- Its not loosing coolant, just getting very hot.
#34
_Shevster_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 03:49 PM
I'm with wildsix on this one, I'm looking to upgrade my LJ radiator to a VB-H Commodore one and am wondering if anything special needs to be done in the modification then installation of it...
So far I've just assumed its just a case of drilling the new holes to mount the wider radiator...?
So far I've just assumed its just a case of drilling the new holes to mount the wider radiator...?
#35
_wildsix_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 06:17 PM
At a glance..
The battery tray has to removed/ modified.
The Front panel needs to be cut for extra air flow/ clearance.
The vb-vk radiator slides into c-channel brackets with two locating pins at the base of it.
One thing I noticed is that the 6cyl and 8cyl are the same height and depth, but the width and outlets are differant.
I guess the best setup would be the V8 core with the 6cyl side tanks.
Let me know what you think people.
It also looks like you could get a custom aluminium made up by ARE, but going by their prices dont expect to get much change out of a grand.
Went and saw a guy at red devil radiators for a second opinion, no help at all.
What can you do when the so called "experts" dont even have a clue!!.
The battery tray has to removed/ modified.
The Front panel needs to be cut for extra air flow/ clearance.
The vb-vk radiator slides into c-channel brackets with two locating pins at the base of it.
One thing I noticed is that the 6cyl and 8cyl are the same height and depth, but the width and outlets are differant.
I guess the best setup would be the V8 core with the 6cyl side tanks.
Let me know what you think people.
It also looks like you could get a custom aluminium made up by ARE, but going by their prices dont expect to get much change out of a grand.
Went and saw a guy at red devil radiators for a second opinion, no help at all.
What can you do when the so called "experts" dont even have a clue!!.
#36
_wildsix_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 06:19 PM
At a glance..
The battery tray has to removed/ modified.
The Front panel needs to be cut for extra air flow/ clearance.
The vb-vk radiator slides into c-channel brackets with two locating pins at the base of it.
One thing I noticed is that the 6cyl and 8cyl are the same height and depth, but the width and outlets are differant.
I guess the best setup would be the V8 core with the 6cyl side tanks.
Let me know what you think people.
It also looks like you could get a custom aluminium made up by ARE, but going by their prices dont expect to get much change out of a grand.
Went and saw a guy at red devil radiators for a second opinion, no help at all.
What can you do when the so called "experts" dont even have a clue!!.
The battery tray has to removed/ modified.
The Front panel needs to be cut for extra air flow/ clearance.
The vb-vk radiator slides into c-channel brackets with two locating pins at the base of it.
One thing I noticed is that the 6cyl and 8cyl are the same height and depth, but the width and outlets are differant.
I guess the best setup would be the V8 core with the 6cyl side tanks.
Let me know what you think people.
It also looks like you could get a custom aluminium made up by ARE, but going by their prices dont expect to get much change out of a grand.
Went and saw a guy at red devil radiators for a second opinion, no help at all.
What can you do when the so called "experts" dont even have a clue!!.
#37
_wildsix_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 06:25 PM
oops...
The height and width are the same, its the depth that is differant.
And looks like the vb/vk radiator only just fits between the chasis rails of the lc/lj front end.
The height and width are the same, its the depth that is differant.
And looks like the vb/vk radiator only just fits between the chasis rails of the lc/lj front end.
#38
_82911_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 07:18 PM
OK... I am in no way going to get involved in offering advice on why your motor is overheating, plenty of others are already helping out so there is not much to add to what has already been said....
BUT.....
I will tell you this......
I recently fitted a header tank of 3.5 litres capacity to my race car. This is plumbed straight into the cooling system via the radiator top tank so it directly increases the capacity of the water circulating in the cooling system.
The extra capacity really helps....the system is so efficient now that even under load on the dyno (repeated pulls) the temp needle stays right at the temp where the thermostat opens... It has NEVER done this before...
Food for thought..
Cheers Greg..
BUT.....
I will tell you this......
I recently fitted a header tank of 3.5 litres capacity to my race car. This is plumbed straight into the cooling system via the radiator top tank so it directly increases the capacity of the water circulating in the cooling system.
The extra capacity really helps....the system is so efficient now that even under load on the dyno (repeated pulls) the temp needle stays right at the temp where the thermostat opens... It has NEVER done this before...
Food for thought..
Cheers Greg..
#39
_@milco@_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 07:57 PM
pictures?OK... I am in no way going to get involved in offering advice on why your motor is overheating, plenty of others are already helping out so there is not much to add to what has already been said....
BUT.....
I will tell you this......
I recently fitted a header tank of 3.5 litres capacity to my race car. This is plumbed straight into the cooling system via the radiator top tank so it directly increases the capacity of the water circulating in the cooling system.
The extra capacity really helps....the system is so efficient now that even under load on the dyno (repeated pulls) the temp needle stays right at the temp where the thermostat opens... It has NEVER done this before...
Food for thought..
Cheers Greg..
what is the header tank made of and how did you attach it?
#40
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 09:45 PM
Yes more info on the header tank?
Excuse my ignorance........what is the attraction of a vb radiator?
How many mm can you fit between the chassis rails, I gather its too wide for a 6cyl taxi pack rad?
Wildsix:Did any on the rad guys do any temp measuring on your setup?
For all the overheating trouble, is it putting out some v8 power?
Excuse my ignorance........what is the attraction of a vb radiator?
How many mm can you fit between the chassis rails, I gather its too wide for a 6cyl taxi pack rad?
Wildsix:Did any on the rad guys do any temp measuring on your setup?
For all the overheating trouble, is it putting out some v8 power?
Edited by devilsadvocate, 09 May 2006 - 09:53 PM.
#42
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 09 May 2006 - 10:17 PM
Food for thought......definitely
Take it that no heat is released from the 'header box".
Have to accept that it works......puzzled as to why though, given that the heat is still only being rejected by the radiator, shouldnt really change anything except giving it a thermal reservoir for short term "crisis"
Take it that no heat is released from the 'header box".
Have to accept that it works......puzzled as to why though, given that the heat is still only being rejected by the radiator, shouldnt really change anything except giving it a thermal reservoir for short term "crisis"
#43
_Shevster_
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 12:35 PM
Simply that it is wider and thicker therefore a greater volume of coolant in the system, I'd imagine the core/s would be bigger and also have a greater surface area, therefore better heat dissapation. Quite simple really.Excuse my ignorance........what is the attraction of a vb radiator?
Pretty much all Group Nc cars I have seen have done that mod.
My cooling system is fine in everyday driving (inc 40+ days), its constant work in high revs where the temp rise's. So when I start doing sprints and things where 3 laps are flat out, I'm going to need to address the temp situation. At winton it takes a lap and a half flat out before I need to slow down to let it cool down.
Cheers
#44
_Chamois hatch_
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:13 PM
what bout a hq chev radiator, bolts straigt in (?) and the hose outlets are in the correct places......
john
john
#45
_wildsix_
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:59 PM
Yes, the Rad guys did a number of tests.
670mm approx between the rails, the vb/vk is close to this.
With the right size and location of the water outlets. So all that is needed is to find out what is the capacity of it.
I wont go into details of the motor, but quite a bit of moolaa has been spent. So keeping it cool is of high importantance.
670mm approx between the rails, the vb/vk is close to this.
With the right size and location of the water outlets. So all that is needed is to find out what is the capacity of it.
I wont go into details of the motor, but quite a bit of moolaa has been spent. So keeping it cool is of high importantance.
#46
_Shevster_
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:36 PM
Shouldn't the capacity be almost identical to a VB commodore? Its essentially got the same cooling system, although the heater size may be different in commodore, shouldn't be anymore than half to a full litre difference...
#47
gtrboyy
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 11:42 PM
It is about 8.5/9litres for a vk six & 12litres for an eight
#48
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:42 PM
The chev/taxi rad is 640mm across the core and has about 2.5cm each side for mounting. Im sure you could get this to fit by scalloping out the metal on the supports near your chassis rails and be able to tilt the rad(back to front) when installing to get the bottom half of the supports past the rails. Look closely too at the spacing of the tubes, they arent all the same, look for about 1.1cm670mm approx between the rails, the vb/vk is close to this.
With the right size and location of the water outlets. So all that is needed is to find out what is the capacity of it.
#49
_wildsix_
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 03:14 PM
Ok got hold of a vk 6cyl radiator, it holds about 1/2 litre more then the the 3 core torrie one. It has better spacing of the tubes. Wont be able to run a standard engine fan though, not enough room. Battery will have to be moved back out of the way and the mounting is going to be tricky. I dont want to make permanent changes if no signaficate effect.
Will have a play later in the week.
Will have a play later in the week.
#50
_JBM_
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 08:26 PM
Do your thermos restrict airflow to the front of the rad?
At highway speeds you should be running cooler.
Get a thermo switch for your thermos so that they cut in automatically, I have an A9X rad in my LH and the switch screwed into the top tank is from a Gemini, the thermo switch runs through a relay to turn on the fan, I also have a manual override switch on the dash to keep the fan on.
James
At highway speeds you should be running cooler.
Get a thermo switch for your thermos so that they cut in automatically, I have an A9X rad in my LH and the switch screwed into the top tank is from a Gemini, the thermo switch runs through a relay to turn on the fan, I also have a manual override switch on the dash to keep the fan on.
James
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