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Over heating, over it

Over it.

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#51 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

I'm not liking the sound of this.Are the finns on the core in top condition?was the dent there before he "cleaned" the radiator?I've been point at air flow but if the radiator is less efficient than it should be it would be similar symptoms.Do you have access to another known good radiator you could substitute for yours for testing?


Yeah the core is in good condition, I also got a brand new adrad radiator thinking it would fix it and it was the same.
I'm going to do all inlet and exhaust manifold gaskets and do the exhaust so I can get it properly tuned from scratch, wind everything back to zero ant top dead centre and start from there like a fresh build.

#52 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

Was that 35 initial or total? And the current 18?


That's a bit technical for me mate. I can replace parts but can't tune them, I leave that for my mechanic, all ideas are welcome though cause I can throw them at him and he can answer them so it does eliminate areas of error.

#53 madtoranajzedded

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:25 PM

timing should be more like 10 deg btdc ,say if its 35/75 ,18deg jesus! what cam are you running,



#54 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

timing should be more like 10 deg btdc ,say if its 35/75 ,18deg jesus! what cam are you running,


That's what I said to the mechanic when he put the light on her and it read 35.
I wouldn't have a clue what cam is in it it's supose to be xu1 spec,
We only went to 18 cause any less it won't idle as we need to tune it,
It's running nice at 18 with no ping so I'd like to see it at 10 with a good tune. Just waiting for the exhaust to get it tuned, I'm a fan of doing things once.

#55 Mort

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:14 PM

I don't know that much about engines, only what i've been told or read but i was told a long time ago that you should bleed your cooling system after emptying it to get rid of any air locks because that can lead to overheating.

 

 



#56 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:24 PM

I don't know that much about engines, only what i've been told or read but i was told a long time ago that you should bleed your cooling system after emptying it to get rid of any air locks because that can lead to overheating.


Yeah I'd say your talking about running your engine with the radiator cap off until your thermostat opens and top it up while its running.
Having a recovery system I'd say helps aswell as it will give or take what it needs or doesn't.
I'm no mechanic though as you can probably tell and have been known to chase a small problem way too long, like this one I will be giving her a good overhaul just for an overheating problem.
She wouldn't have had one for 10 years so she's due.

#57 Toranamat69

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:45 PM

Red motors are great for spinning the outter hub of the harmonic balancer.  If that has happened, you won't have a clue where the timing actually is.



#58 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:56 PM

+1.

 

Also, your timing is still up the shit if thats 18 initial.

 

Difference between initial and total is as follows.

 

Initial timing is taken whilst the engine is at idle. If the dizzy is properly graphed to suit the engine this will be with the mechanical advance at its most retarded point.

 

Total is taken somewhere in the rev range once the mechanical advance is fully advanced. I say somewhere in the rev range because this depends on the dizzy, whats done to it.

 

I usually go for between 8-12 initial and 22-28 total, depending on the application.

 

Yours being mildly worked you would look at about the halfway marks between them bordering on the lower side, so 8-10 initial and 24-26 total, depending on how much mechanical advance is dialied into the dizzy and when. 

 

I fully appreciate the whole idea of doing it all once the gaskets are changed though, no point frOcking around now.

 

How much experience does your mechanic have with these kind of engines?

 

Cheers.



#59 S pack

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

Your crankcase breather setup needs some work, but thats not your immediate issue. 

 

Agree with the fan spacer idea above.

 

Cheers. 

I'd be sorting the PCV before spending $$$ on a tune up.



#60 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:17 PM

Yeah, but, i've had plenty of engines like that back in my sillyer days with no ill issues.

 

Hell, my current good engine is more or less like that, with more blingy stuff though....



#61 S pack

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

What size are your Strombergs? These are not XU1 carbs and manifold.

Also noticed no vacuum advance pipe to the dizzy. Has the dizzy has been modified to mechanical advance only?

post-47075-0-14674800-1386072100.jpg



#62 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

+1.
 
Also, your timing is still up the shit if thats 18 initial.
 
Difference between initial and total is as follows.
 
Initial timing is taken whilst the engine is at idle. If the dizzy is properly graphed to suit the engine this will be with the mechanical advance at its most retarded point.
 
Total is taken somewhere in the rev range once the mechanical advance is fully advanced. I say somewhere in the rev range because this depends on the dizzy, whats done to it.
 
I usually go for between 8-12 initial and 22-28 total, depending on the application.
 
Yours being mildly worked you would look at about the halfway marks between them bordering on the lower side, so 8-10 initial and 24-26 total, depending on how much mechanical advance is dialied into the dizzy and when. 
 
I fully appreciate the whole idea of doing it all once the gaskets are changed though, no point frOcking around now.
 
How much experience does your mechanic have with these kind of engines?
 
Cheers.




Thanks for the explanation, it's sitting at 18 initial now and is running better, my mechanic would have liked to go to 12 or 14 initial but as I said earlier not worth a full tune yet.

#63 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:38 PM

What size are your Strombergs? These are not XU1 carbs and manifold.
Also noticed no vacuum advance pipe to the dizzy. Has the dizzy has been modified to mechanical advance only?
post-47075-0-14674800-1386072100.jpg


The carbs are 150 stromies and not sure of brand of manifold, I'm tempted to get xu1 manifold and 175's down the track just to fill the 2nd hole in my rocker cover correctly but then I think there's no need as they are not a factory fitted item anyway and it's not an xu1, it runs well with the set up its got so I'd like to see it fine tuned.
I'm not sure about the dizzy that's a bit past me but know it early commodore.

See S pack I have this problem, I really wanted an Xu1, I had one lined up at a good price and the sale fell through, I saw this car and 2 other people wanted it at the time and I had to make the decision I jumped on it cause of its matching numbers and even though the sale fell through on the xu1 it wasn't matching number car.
So now I'm torn between not much work involved in putting a bobtail and 175's and extractors on it and a sticker kit or keep it a tidy GTR with period tripples on it. I can't have my six without tripples, there's nothing like the sound of butterflies in the morning.

+1.
 
Also, your timing is still up the shit if thats 18 initial.
 
Difference between initial and total is as follows.
 
Initial timing is taken whilst the engine is at idle. If the dizzy is properly graphed to suit the engine this will be with the mechanical advance at its most retarded point.
 
Total is taken somewhere in the rev range once the mechanical advance is fully advanced. I say somewhere in the rev range because this depends on the dizzy, whats done to it.
 
I usually go for between 8-12 initial and 22-28 total, depending on the application.
 
Yours being mildly worked you would look at about the halfway marks between them bordering on the lower side, so 8-10 initial and 24-26 total, depending on how much mechanical advance is dialied into the dizzy and when. 
 
I fully appreciate the whole idea of doing it all once the gaskets are changed though, no point frOcking around now.
 
How much experience does your mechanic have with these kind of engines?
 
Cheers.



The carbs are 150 stromies and not sure of brand of manifold, I'm tempted to get xu1 manifold and 175's down the track just to fill the 2nd hole in my rocker cover correctly but then I think there's no need as they are not a factory fitted item anyway and it's not an xu1, it runs well with the set up its got so I'd like to see it fine tuned.
I'm not sure about the dizzy that's a bit past me but know it early commodore.
See S pack I have this problem, I really wanted an Xu1, I had one lined up at a good price and the sale fell through, I saw this car and 2 other people wanted it at the time and I had to make the decision I jumped on it cause of its matching numbers and even though the sale fell through on the xu1 it wasn't matching number car.
So now I'm torn between not much work involved in putting a bobtail and 175's and extractors on it and a sticker kit or keep it a tidy GTR with period tripples on it. I can't have my six without tripples, there's nothing like the sound of butterflies in the morning.



#64 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:46 PM

My mechanic has some experience with holden sixes but has a heap of knowledge in tuning as he races minis and other 4 bangers, all carby cars.
I know what you thinking 4 bangers but none of his motors have a single carby and they sound sweet as and he's always a front runner in his class so I've got faith in him,
Mainly though he looks after me doesn't rip me off and he is a mechanic unlike myself.

#65 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:48 PM

Red motors are great for spinning the outter hub of the harmonic balancer.  If that has happened, you won't have a clue where the timing actually is.


Yip just checked, harmonic balancer is starting to split so ill be getting that done shortly.

#66 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

Thats cool, sounds like he's your guy.

 

Just thought i'd ask, i had to go around to a mechanics place once after he just picked up a Torana to show him how to set the valve lash, set the timing and balance the carbs...Trade qualified mechanic.

 

Cheers.



#67 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:12 PM

Thats cool, sounds like he's your guy.
 
Just thought i'd ask, i had to go around to a mechanics place once after he just picked up a Torana to show him how to set the valve lash, set the timing and balance the carbs...Trade qualified mechanic.
 
Cheers.


How true DJ, sometimes the bloke with no paperwork and has been doing his job for 10 or 20 years specializing in something is the gun.
These days, how many people stick out their apprenticeship for the ticket and leave the trade then 10 years later come back with no on the job experience.
I've seen blokes get a carpentry trade ticket working in a furniture factory and not once swung a hammer as it was a machine driven furniture factory, so bloke can't drive a nail let alone build a table.
Not having a dig at tradies though, I was one and we need more of them.

#68 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:13 PM

 Well said.



#69 warrenm

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:37 AM

+1.

 

Also, your timing is still up the shit if thats 18 initial.

 

Difference between initial and total is as follows.

 

Initial timing is taken whilst the engine is at idle. If the dizzy is properly graphed to suit the engine this will be with the mechanical advance at its most retarded point.

 

Total is taken somewhere in the rev range once the mechanical advance is fully advanced. I say somewhere in the rev range because this depends on the dizzy, whats done to it.

 

I usually go for between 8-12 initial and 22-28 total, depending on the application.

 

Yours being mildly worked you would look at about the halfway marks between them bordering on the lower side, so 8-10 initial and 24-26 total, depending on how much mechanical advance is dialied into the dizzy and when. 

 

I fully appreciate the whole idea of doing it all once the gaskets are changed though, no point frOcking around now.

 

How much experience does your mechanic have with these kind of engines?

 

Cheers.

Why so little total timing? 30°-34° shouldn't be a problem.



#70 TerrA LX

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:03 AM

That's what I said to the mechanic when he put the light on her and it read 35.
I wouldn't have a clue what cam is in it it's supose to be xu1 spec,
We only went to 18 cause any less it won't idle as we need to tune it,
It's running nice at 18 with no ping so I'd like to see it at 10 with a good tune. Just waiting for the exhaust to get it tuned, I'm a fan of doing things once.

So it was pinging???
You need some of bombers piss on the sweet spot stat.

#71 _GTR 82911_

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

So it was pinging???You need some of bombers piss on the sweet spot stat.


Yeah it was pinging but not like a pinging noise I'm use to, either that or it has been 10 years since I've had the sweet sound in my shed.
It's heaps better even under the pedal now so I'm hanging for a proper tune in the new year, in the meantime ill baby her with only main road travel.

#72 TerrA LX

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

Pinging in the shed?????

Engines only ping under load.

#73 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:21 PM

Pinging in the shed sounds like an exhaust leak to me...

 

Warren, dunno, never had an engine that wants it i suppose. I've tried screwing a few around to 30 or more total, but never really noticed a difference. 

 

I trust you have had different experiences?

 

That said the boat loved 30 total, 308 though.

 

Cheers.


Edited by Bomber Watson, 05 December 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#74 r2160

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:01 PM

I would still put some time into the dizzy before you did much more. Get an expert to have a look over it to see where it is at

 

cheers

Glenn



#75 Mort

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:05 PM

Notice OldJohnno hasn't commented (might not have seen this thread), maybe PM him with the problem, he may have an answer for you.






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