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High hp/rpm n/a efi plenum


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#101 _rb3torana_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:22 PM

Well it runs lol. Actually idles ok and drives pretty good, although at WOT it get like a surge kinda feeling or like your going from flat to half then back to flat throughout the rev range. It happen on the primaries also if throttle is kept constant. Ive gone from lean to rich with no change in feeling. Tried different dizzys/timing etc. Starting to think I have weak carb signal at WOT. I might try putting a divider in it all the way up to the carb baseplate to separate the front and rear cylinders to see what that does. Cheers



#102 N/A-PWR

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:31 PM

Good Stuff,

 

Must feel strange doing something different.



#103 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:34 PM

Awesome work mate. 

 

Considerg chopping the plenum area back a bit as well like OJ recommended?



#104 _rb3torana_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:40 PM

Nah not yet anyways, my theory is thinking the fuel is pooling and fighting between cylinders throughout the rev range. Hopefully splitting the plenum in 2 the fuel will have less chance of pooling. Sounds farken ratty BTW lol. Cheers



#105 greens nice

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:10 PM

Good stuff, have you done a wot test and pulled the plugs yet?

I imagined this to have a pretty cranky idle hehe

#106 _rb3torana_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:29 PM

I have and the plugs look ok, front 4 are even and rear 2 are rich which is why Im thinking its pooling. The rear 2 plugs may be just rich at idle as the fuel is just running to the back ports because of gravity lol. Cheers



#107 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:07 PM

It'll be pooling alright, don't worry about that. Ideally you'd think of this one as a prototype or proof-of-concept and make the next one a keeper. You can take a shitload of volume out of it, fit port dividers and texture the entire floor. Don't wrap the exhaust either; a bit of warmth will do it good. And make sure that the wall of the "teardrop" is completely sealed to the floor. If you do this I think it'd go OK.



#108 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:44 PM

A couple of afterthoughts - check your cruise vacuum to make sure that the PVs aren't cycling and causing a surge. You'll find that it'll want a metric shitload of spark advance and that it'll be very sensitive to temperature, so make sure it's good and hot before you tune it. And put a nice sharp edge around the opening of the carb spacer to help shear the fuel.



#109 Steve TPF

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 06:29 AM

. And put a nice sharp edge around the opening of the carb spacer to help shear the fuel.

 

I hate to sound stupid but WTF do you mean by that?



#110 _rb3torana_

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:19 AM

Yeah at cruise it seems ok, but I get what you mean if they are cycling and when you stab it, its already pooled. I'll do the divider and see how we go. Cheers



#111 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:24 AM

I hate to sound stupid but WTF do you mean by that?

 

Imagine the fuel/air mix leaving the carb. It exits the carb, then travels through the spacer that's necessary in this case for linkage clearance. As soon as it exits the spacer it's pulled sideways as it heads for the runners. A sharp edge or corner on the lower opening of the spacer creates some turbulence and this help keep the fuel in suspension rather than just smearing itself along the roof of the manifold.

 

Whenever the manifold has big expanses of flat, smooth and cool inner surfaces (and especially if the fuel/air is entering at right angles) then keeping the fuel suspended and not just wetting the walls is a challenge.



#112 Steve TPF

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:20 PM

Thanks for enlightening me.



#113 _rb3torana_

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:45 PM

Starting making some pipes, no where near equal length but they'll do.

 

2014-09-07195229_zps8c4692d5.jpg

 

2014-09-07195245_zps1b4fc792.jpg

 

2014-09-07190202_zps0bde9dd0.jpg

 

2014-08-28185938_zps5fe0a2e2.jpg



#114 _Lazarus_

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 09:02 PM

You seem pretty handy.

 

Why not try making one of OJ's twin Holley 350 tunnel rams ?



#115 _rb3torana_

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:17 PM

Little update.



#116 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:24 PM

Aaaahhh saw that one on one of the six banger facebook pages. 



#117 N/A-PWR

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:17 AM

Good runner RBT,

 

thank's for posting the You-tube.  :spoton:

 

You can only get better.



#118 Dave6179

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:59 AM

Your exhaust is the same as I made a few years ago, although my pipes were less than 1/4 inch different in length. Did you notice the different sound it made? I didn't listen to the wireless for weeks after they went on!



#119 Steve TPF

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:56 PM

A second dumb question while I'm thinking of it: why are inlet manifolds always made of alloy? Every car I can remember lifting the bonnet on has an alloy inlet manifold, even the really old Hillman and Morris that I drove when I was younger. Was it cheaper/easier to cast or is there some technical reason for the alloy choice?



#120 N/A-PWR

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 08:03 PM

I will take a guess Steve,

 

Cheaper to make, as is only 600 degrees melting point for one.



not sure if it is lighter than a steel one, but could also have less heat transfer properties that help.



#121 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 08:45 PM

A second dumb question while I'm thinking of it: why are inlet manifolds always made of alloy? Every car I can remember lifting the bonnet on has an alloy inlet manifold, even the really old Hillman and Morris that I drove when I was younger. Was it cheaper/easier to cast or is there some technical reason for the alloy choice?

 

Cast iron manifolds were very common on older inline engines and even more common on V8s. Alloy is lighter but not as cheap as iron.



#122 _rb3torana_

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:12 PM

After much stuffing around with air bleeds, emulsion jets, jets and power valves trying to solve an overly rich condition after lauching Ive decided to mod the intake a little more to try and get rid of some volume and to move the carb closer to the runners. I already added dividers in each runner which actually to my surprise made it react worse but hopefully my next mod with them will make it work. BTW yes the new pipes do sound good and actually pushed the converter harder against the footbrake and pulled better up high. Cheers

 

intakemodified_zpsd8db825e.jpg



#123 Steve TPF

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:33 PM

Cast iron manifolds were very common on older inline engines and even more common on V8s. Alloy is lighter but not as cheap as iron.

 

Ok, but the weight difference between an allow manifold and a cast iron one would hardly be enough to improve performance, so why use alloy if it's more expensive? Is GASPOWER right about heat transfer being the reason?

 

#124 N/A-PWR

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 02:37 AM

Did a bit of reading on the net Steve,

 

and Oldjohnno is right as usual, where the cast iron is cheaper to make, and has been on inlet manifolds too, there are arguments to about which is better,

 

and although they both have Pro's and Con's, there is no real advantage ( lean spots/less oxygen atoms ).

 

The introduction of double walled manifolds, was to heat or cool the manifold as needed, in which even altitude play a part ( for those who travel a lot ).

 

All these manufacturing methods were employed to find better ways to produce Power and Economy, but it was not till the Intercoolers/superchargers/ etc, that created cooler air.

 

Ok, but the weight difference between an allow manifold and a cast iron one would hardly be enough to improve performance, so why use alloy if it's more expensive? Is GASPOWER right about heat transfer being the reason?

 


and as Oldjohnno has always said about differences of opinions, I read quite a few different sites to get the drift.



#125 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:38 AM

Ok, but the weight difference between an allow manifold and a cast iron one would hardly be enough to improve performance, so why use alloy if it's more expensive? Is GASPOWER right about heat transfer being the reason?

 

 

I've swapped iron manifolds for alloy on V8s and the weight difference over the front end is actually noticeable, mind you an iron BBC manifold is bloody heavy. The weight saving of an alloy manifold on an inline isn't so much on its own, but if it's part of a suite of changes that also include things like an alloy water pump, timing case, bellhousing and so on then it would certainly be worthwhile.






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