60 replies to this topic

[goxu1]

If there was enough interest we could buy a copy and split the cost ?

[WhiteA9XS]

doublin gtr is spot on , no use having a matching numbered car if its not the real deal , ensure you check all the tell tales and the date codes ..

[2600s]

I am glad that copies of the microfiche have now been made available to us enthusiasts of these fine cars, this will make the lives of the selected few who had access to this info a little easier now and give us the info when we need it as there can be some time before you can get a response from PM's sent as there can be quite a few who ask for this kind of info!

If I can get my hands on a copy I will as I believe a friend may have purchased the first copy!

[limo]

what i a am trying to say is the microfiche has vin and some engine numbers
but it dosent have chassis or body numbers  paint etc.
with people getting the microfiche all that is going to happen is a lot more engine restamping
and as 830 said its all the other bits to

The LC LJ don't have a VIN they only have chassis no. on inner guard and body no.
on specs plate so what good is microfiche?
Any engine stamping should be picked up by Registration depts, unless someone
happens to pick one that has been scrapped. Then if more than 1 person does the same number police check on ID to change engine or reg which I thought was Aust wide now would pick it up as well.

[bryanw]

I think the problem is not everyone would use the info in the same way.

I don't know what info is on the disk, but one would imagine it is in order of vin number, but that doesn't mean you cant search body numbers etc now it is on disc.

with the right info you can make a good mockup as good as the real thing, especially the real ones missing their plates

as for less work, it will increase it to provide greater info to prove it is not a number mock up as well.
maybe xray the engine numbers etc.
be spending time checking tags themselves, not the numbers on them.
it will be harder to check than a a9x, at least they had a modified body.

the people that should be worried are the ones that have payed good money for a matching numbers car.
with this info you can even provide service books!
how far will someone go to increase the value of a none gen car?
all you need is one of these discs to be copied, and soon we will all have one.
xu1 that is

you often see vin,body id plates not attached to a body, now they can be, and with the right numbers.
or miss matched plates
adds looking for this number body id etc, may have the correct one for your car!

the problems are endless. thats why only holden should have the numbers!

how would you go when you finally finished that 10yr resto, rock up to the rta to find you car already registered. that is someone checked reg info, reproduced these numbers as the car didn't exist. they would be long gone by the time it was found out. which one is the real one?

if people are copying new vehicle id's and sticking them to stolen cars, then reselling them interstate, and it takes ages for the cops to figure it out, what hope would they have with a 1970 car!
lots of early cars (pre 1985) don't even have the vin on the rta records, so they may never know there is a duplicate out there!

$250 a disk! would of probably reached more than an xu1 if let run on a bidding war. they are a licence to print money.

this info being shared is a sad day for all.

Edited by bryanw, 21 July 2006 - 11:34 AM.

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

This topic of VINs & chassis numbers comes up so often we should make it a sticky.

ALL Holdens from 1968 onwards have a VIN. This is not what the RTA call a VIN, but it is what GM-H refer to as their VIN (also sometimes called a Production Sequence Number or PSN - the number on the long skinny plate) . VIN is just an acronym for Vehicle Identification Number. This GM-H VIN had 13 digits for HK to 8/72 & but feaured a different system using 14 digits from 9/72 to 1988 (VL). From 1988 (VN) onwards GM-H used the new universal 17 digit ISOVIN as their chassis number so nowadays their is only one VIN, to avoid confusion. Holden production records always refer to the GM-H VIN, not the chassis numer, on pre-1988 cars.

The RTA use the number stamped into the body or chassis as their VIN, but prior to 1988 we called this number the chassis number. If the RTA need the VIN for your car, you use the chassis number for any vehicle up to VL & the 17 ISOVIN for VN onwards. The early GM-H VIN number is of no significance to the RTA or Police.

Dr Terry.

[bryanw]

Dr terry, that is good info.
but regards to the your state road authority, each one seems to be a bit different.

vic roads normally documented the vin if the car was seen by them for whatever reason after the early 80's. and some times before?

I bought an unregistered LC GTR, vic roads found it with the vin, but the chassis number is not listed?
they also had the engine number.

doublin gtr

if that is the case, how is the info used to verify it is genuine?
you would have to have the
vin plate number
chassis number
body plate number
engine number


the rest you can check off the body plate.
color etc, providing it is the correct plate for that chassis, vin.

you don't need the disc to work out if the numbers are close to correct.
so what you are saying is there is no way of telling if it is the exact number, just close?

[WhiteA9XS]

vic roads use the chassis number for identification , which i think is the best as a vin tag can be replaced to easy ..

ok guys i bought a copy of the c.d as i was interested .

the info is not that radical but a good tool to help with purchasing a car .
however buyers should go over a car carefully include checking of stamping
doublin gtr you are still right .

should others pay the high price of 250 or should we save forum members cash
by making the info available as a download by sticky ???

i have been told similar info is available for E38/E49 chargers on there forum site

the reason i ask this question is the seller is making quite a profit at 8 copies sold so far and i think this is like scalping at this price .. (so far 2 grand)
and i feel we as gmh torana members should look after each other..

any suggestions or your thoughts ???

[bryanw]

makes sense why you can't find the original vin if lost/damaged from the chassis number then!
there is no connection between the two.

So a matching car is really just one that is close to matching? within a few hundred or so!

here I am thinking there is a long list that the vin is checked against to confirm the numbers for the car. so you are saying the vin is checked roughly against what the numbers should be?

so that would mean people wasted good money for some discs.
and the rest of us have had the wool pulled over our eyes thinking we have/had a genuine car. but may have been just a close match!

[bryanw]

If the disc doesn't have to radical info on it, probably best to post it to stop the scalping.
maybe I cracked it over nothing?

won't be long before it is recopied for a cheaper price.
once it is out you can't stop it.

makes more sense for rta to use the chassis number than the vin on the early cars.

[MONZA1]

The early GM-H VIN number is of no significance to the RTA or Police.

I don't agree with that statement. I think you'll find the RTA computers add zero's either before or after the VIN to achieve 17 digit ISOVINs.

My rego papers for my 1980 Commodore show a 10 digit number, so no, they don't add zeros in NSW.

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

Any RTA or Police that use the early Holden VIN for identification is breaking their own rules. The rules for chassis or car ID are that the number must be stamped into the body or in another 'tamperproof' spot like VN & later Commodores (behind the windscreen). The ISOVIN standard was an ADR requirement for 1900 & later (it is not required to be invented for early cars)

Simply put if they use the Holden VIN (PSN), they've done the wrong thing. It's nothing more than a rivetted plate.

AFAIK there is only provision for one VIN on the RTA's forms, if somebody records the Holden VIN, where do they put the real chassis number.

Dr Terry.