768 replies to this topic

[crabba67]

Byron or Dr Terry,Do you have a photo or some proof of a late HG commercial with a AHG chassis and a GL block.i have looked at three late one,s all have HG not AHG chassis and low QL blocks fact or fiction.

Cheers 

[yel327]

There is info in the HG docos somewhere Anthony and there are Engineering drawings showing the different items for fitment of 173 and 202 engines, but it is simply how it was. HG and LC ran past HQ engine introduction and as a result they both got HQ engines albeit with C and G prefixes due to the different sumps. Both LC and HG got ALC and AHG chassis numbers, I've seen plenty of them. I have ID plates here in front of me off a 7/71 HG commercial and it has AHG4xxxxM as a chassis number - this one was a 173 IIRC. 

[xu2308]

yel327

 

So was the Yellow 350/Z Monaro the Old Man Emu, shame the Tender Sheet does not list its PSN number, maybe the ID Tag has Show Car on it, as the Tender Sheet says Show Car.

 

AL

[yel327]

Yes, the photos of the metallic car as a HQ Old Man Emu is the 350Z prior to the 350Z treatment. Look at them side by side an it is obvious. I'm pretty sure we have worked out which car it is so we know its original PSN.

[xu2308]

Cool if you have worked out its PSN, just hope it has survived the ravishes of time and is still around.

 

AL

[S pack]

There is info in the HG docos somewhere Anthony and there are Engineering drawings showing the different items for fitment of 173 and 202 engines, but it is simply how it was. HG and LC ran past HQ engine introduction and as a result they both got HQ engines albeit with C and G prefixes due to the different sumps. Both LC and HG got ALC and AHG chassis numbers, I've seen plenty of them. I have ID plates here in front of me off a 7/71 HG commercial and it has AHG4xxxxM as a chassis number - this one was a 173 IIRC. 

It is possible some Dealers upgraded some pre 7/71 HG commercials with QL202 engines just to get rid of them off their showroom

floor.

 

Just a thought.

Edited by S pack, 01 September 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[yel327]

Where would the QL 202's have come from though? You couldn't buy them through Nasco - these would be NL prefix. They would have had to have come from production cars and at that time period a HQ was a brand new car and had only been on sale from 23rd July. Prior to 11/71 a HG commercial was a current vehicle and there would be cars in plant stock to sell, dealers wouldn't be trying to get rid of them other than the normal sales process. There must be a reason for it but all I can think of is GMH themselves but in HQ engines in their own internal use vehicles to replace failed or flogged out 161 or 186's. This was a reasonably normal process and often happened if the internal use vehicles were in good nick but had lots of kM or the engine in them was not for general consumption. The new engine made them more saleable too. The Max Wilson gold HQ GTS350 in the same tender as the orange V8 LJ had its SBC removed and a HJ 308 put in it prior to that tender.

Edited by yel327, 01 September 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[S pack]

Where would the QL 202's have come from though? You couldn't buy them through Nasco - these would be NL prefix. They would have had to have come from production cars and at that time period a HQ was a brand new car and had only been on sale from 23rd July. Prior to 11/71 a HG commercial was a current vehicle and there would be cars in plant stock to sell, dealers wouldn't be trying to get rid of them other than the normal sales process. 

Current production engine assembles were available on a firm order basis. So, complete QL202 engines could be ordered.

 

Could explain a pre AHG prefix chassis having an early QL engine, esp if the log book says the vehicle was sold new with the QL in it.

[Dr Terry]

Given that the fact the HQ/HJ/HX/HZ series were the biggest selling series of any car on the Aussie market (over 900,000 sold) & that the 202 was by far the most commonly fitted engine in HQ, the exchange engine market would've been knee-deep in these these things in the late 70s & early 80s.

 

There are huge numbers of HK/HT/HGs running around with 202s under the bonnet without the driver even knowing.

 

Dr Terry

[S pack]

Granted there are lots of old Holdens that were built before the 202 was thought of that now have one residing in the engine bay however the late 70's and 80's exchange engine market does not explain a 6/71 HG utility that was sold by a Holden Dealer as a new vehicle in January 1972 with an early QL engine under the bonnet.

[Dr Terry]

Granted there are lots of old Holdens that were built before the 202 was thought of that now have one residing in the engine bay however the late 70's and 80's exchange engine market does not explain a 6/71 HG utility that was sold by a Holden Dealer as a new vehicle in January 1972 with an early QL engine under the bonnet.

If it was sold new with a QL engine, then somewhere between the engine plant & the dealership it has had an engine/block swap.

 

The only real differences between the GL & QL engines is the carby linkage (on the carb), the front thermostat housing & the sump & oil pick-up.

 

All of these are easy to swap, but where was it done ? I couldn't imagine the engine plant incorrectly stamping a GL block as a a QL, or even worse a 186P as a QL.

 

As another poster has mentioned, a 7/71 ute not sold new until 1/72 is a long time gap, given the popularity of ute in those days.

 

Dr Terry

[yel327]

Current production engine assembles were available on a firm order basis. So, complete QL202 engines could be ordered.

 

Could explain a pre AHG prefix chassis having an early QL engine, esp if the log book says the vehicle was sold new with the QL in it.

 

They wouldn't be QL though Dave, they'd be NL as they'd be bought through Nasco. The books probably were for an internal GMH car.
 

[S pack]

They wouldn't be QL though Dave, they'd be NL as they'd be bought through Nasco. The books probably were for an internal GMH car.
 

I'll disagree Byron.

 

My understanding is 'Current production engine assemblies' were the same as used on the assembly line. Yes they were sold through NASCO but they were not N prefix engines.

[yel327]

I don't think that is the case Dave. Might be right but would be unusual.

[Potta]

I'm going to say fact but I get the feeling it's a trick question lol

[S pack]

Ficton.

 

The HB Torana was released in 1967.

[Dr Terry]

^^^^^ Correct.

 

Media release date was 21 May 1967.

 

Dr Terry

[S pack]

Ex factory, Holden red 6 forged crankshafts were fitted with torsional dampers and the red 6 nodular iron crankshafts were fitted with harmonic balancers.

 

Fact or Ficton

[yel327]

Just thought of another. Large Salisbury rear axles as fitted to HQ to WB, VB-VK and LX A9X.

 

Commercial and Passenger variants use the same axle tube material. 

 

Fact or Fiction?

[yel327]

Ex factory, Holden red 6 forged crankshafts were fitted with torsional dampers and the red 6 nodular iron crankshafts were fitted with harmonic balancers.

 

Fact or Ficton

 

I thought a Harmonic Balancer was a form of Tortional Damper?

 

Having said that I have noticed that Chevrolet SB engines with forged cranshafts have a far smaller front "balancer" than those with cast crankshafts. Maybe this is due to the first tortional frequency of the forged cranshaft being a far different frequency to the cast ones? 

[S pack]

Just thought of another. Large Salisbury rear axles as fitted to HQ to WB, VB-VK and LX A9X.

 

Commercial and Passenger variants use the same axle tube material. 

 

Fact or Fiction?

I'll say ficton.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 1 Tonner Salisbury axle housing tubes are made from heavier grade steel tube.

Edited by S pack, 06 September 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[yel327]

I'll say ficton.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 1 Tonner Salisbury axle housing tubes are made from heavier grade steel tube.

 

Correct, except all commercial large Sals housings use thicker tube, not just tonners.

[S pack]

Ex factory, Holden red 6 forged crankshafts were fitted with torsional dampers and the red 6 nodular iron crankshafts were fitted with harmonic balancers.

 

Fact or Ficton

 

 

I thought a Harmonic Balancer was a form of Tortional Damper?

 

Having said that I have noticed that Chevrolet SB engines with forged cranshafts have a far smaller front "balancer" than those with cast crankshafts. Maybe this is due to the first tortional frequency of the forged cranshaft being a far different frequency to the cast ones? 

Ficton.

 

Ex factory, Holden red 6 forged crankshafts were fitted with Harmonic Balancers and the red 6 nodular iron crankshafts were fitted with Torsional Dampers.