145 replies to this topic

[Lc69]

I'm starting to think about which direction I should take with my engine upgrade on my LC.
I'm in no rush, still working through the brake upgrade, but I would like to start to put a plan together so I can start pulling the parts together over time.

I know there's plenty of experience here to help with this. Here's my wish list:
- Needs to be reasonably period correct, not looking to do Jap, LS, V6, or other strange options.
- Needs to be engineered in QLD, So basically thinking Holden 6 or 253
- Would consider a basic turbo setup for the six.
- Thinking Aussie 4 speed and banjo diff, so nothing exotic.
- Used twice a month for cruzing and fun, so needs to be reliable and reasonably streetable.
- +250hp and lots or torque, on pump fuel
- Budget....Lets say $8k

I Currently have a 161, single barrel Holley, Genni extractors, high comp head, electronic ignition.
I could uses parts from this to save some cash, but would ideally be building in the background while enjoying what I have.

I know the Idea of a V8 conversion kills some people, but a simple 253 would tick a lot of these boxes.

Let me know what you think.

[Rockoz]

Sounds like you already have your own answer.

Nothing wrong with a 253.

Have a search around and see what they did with Commodore Cup motors.

They were 253 and put out some good figures.

Could also use VN style heads and injection for more reliable poke

[gtrboyy]

Real question is sound...what do you ultimately like more v8 rumble or classic holden six sound?

 

If you go 202 for budget reasons will you regret it?

 

253 or bango choices will be wasted money long term...especially bango option unless you're a granny driver.

 

Personally I like injected 5 litres,can be made to look ol' skool carby

 

or efi 202...vk efi motor is surprisingly good skid motor/cruiser & can hook up vn v6 delco with few guys on pcmhacking site can do memcals.

Really cool way would be triple throttle body budget setup for looks 'n' cool factor.

 

 

Best way to decide is get car on road & driving with what you have now...enjoy it for what it is then modify or list things you must change.

Edited by gtrboyy, 28 March 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[Lc69]

Wont get a 5lt legally engineered in QLD without spending the equivelent of a nice house on the gold coast beach in coin....
But the above comment still stands, do you want the veate sound without the go, or do you want the go and the proper sound?

That's my understanding as well. Might even have issues doing a 253, haven't asked the question yet.

As for the second question, I like the sound but I'm trying to decide if it's worth it.
I started off dead set on a basic 253 conversion, but looking at some of the 6 builds on here has me thinking I might find a suitable substitute.

I'm not really keen on injection for this build. I want it simple with minimal wires and complications like it is now.

Sounds like I'm stretching the limitations of the drive train. I really wanted to avoid changing too much to minimise the engineering.
But if I'm backing into a corner it's better to have the options on the table now.

[Ice]

202 red or blue nice head cam and internals good ignition and triple carbs is all you need
no need to change box or diff
save heaps on cost and 100 % legal

[yel327]

I'd always say V8, but if you intend on keeping the banjo a warm six is a far more sensible choice. You could get a Trutrac centre and some new 28 spline axles made up for it but that is $2500-$3000 already and its still got banjo gears.

 

I'd just build up a 202S engine like the stillborn HQ 80737 was going to get before it was dumped, except a bit more compression, maybe bigger cam and HEI ignition with the extractors you already have. Bomber and Oldjohnno plus others here know more about these 6's than anyone I've even seen so I'd be guided by them. It won't cost a huge amount and might leave you some $ to upgrade the diff a bit 

[yel327]

Tony, why not give Bomber a challenge to get his Ford head on a Holden 6 working and use your car as a guinea pig? Would certainly be a sweet little 186 or 202 and Ford intakes and even extractors to modify wouldn't be too hard to make work?

[Rockoz]

My LC had a rather fun combo back in the day.

186 overbored to 192.

Extractors.

Good head. Forget who did the head work but it was as good as they get in the 80s.

Waggot 50/90 cam. Solid lifters.

Triple 45mm Dellortos.

 

Would let loose easily in 3rd gear.

 

Needed a bit of tuning and more development but was reliable even though a pig to drive in traffic.

And fuel economy was non existent. About 6mpg. With a 10 gallon tank it limited where you could go with it.

Power oversteer on corners was absolute fun. But obviously totally socially irresponsible

[r2160]

Have you thought about an RB30? Relatively cheap to buy now. Turbo manifolds etc are already available. The price of computers has dropped a lot.

 

Might be an interesting swap.

[Dodgey]

One of my favourites

 

 

 

Edited by Dodgey, 29 March 2016 - 03:27 PM.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

There should be some kind of parental advisory at the start of that video cos that 186 is porn!!

[yel327]

277hp@6400rpm, 248lb-ft@4600rpm.

 

Given the setup those will essentially be SAE gross. I'd thought it'd be a little higher than that for a triple carbied 202. Pretty impressive but not that much different to a stock HJ 308 that has (SAE gross):

 

 250bhp@5000rpm, 320lb-ft@3400rpm.

 

Totally different animals I know but just interesting to compare.

Edited by yel327, 29 March 2016 - 04:20 PM.

[LC-GTR-1969]

My take on it...

 

Put in what your heart says... Dont get caught up in chasing hp numbers nor get caught up with overthinking the whole package.

 

V8s are great, luv em, but they are not a nessesity in small toranas (they go very well with good 6s). In saying that, I would still love a V8 powered small torana myself, but coming back to my first statement, the extra power potential offered by V8s is not really needed IMO in a small torana (to have fun that is).

 

Although this depends on what you want of course. A warm 308 will probably feel faster than a hot 6 in an LC/LJ but wont guarantee it will be actually be quicker in a straight line. I know of a few warm V8 powered small toranas doing high 13s, which is not too hard to achieve (or surpass) with a hot 6. BUT, if you want a tyre frying setup that drives smooth in traffic yet does 11s, a V8 is obviously better for the job than the humble 6.

 

Back to the OP question, if its not possible to put 308 in qld, I would just go with the 202 and not worry about the 253. The good old 253s are great but not enough incentive to my reckoning to justify the conversion (some more torque yes, and V8 sound, yes, but a fair bit of hassle for not much more than what a good 202 can offer IMO). 

[Lc69]

This place doesn't stop, good work gents. So....

Couldn't bring myself to do an RB30 or simillar setup.
Some of those options are clearly very logical, but it's just not me.
I like the idea of it being semi period correct. In spirit anyway.

Those Power House engines are what started to make me think twice.
I'm not sure the 253 conversion would be that much more work, am I dreaming?
Triples and manifold......$2500.......look very cool, but you would want to be happy with the decision.
I assume the performance compared to a Holley is well worth it?

Heaps of knowledge and combos for the 6 here. I'm confident the right package could be pulled together.

The diff seems to be a sticking point with all options.
I'm about to do a disk brake upgrade with new axels......do I consider a new diff now?
I'm not planning on ever having big rubber or tubs.

[Ice]

The banjo is fine if you dont do anything stupid i have a 3.55 lsd behind a Sag box and a pretty warm 202 with triples1.75 strombergs plenty of power for the street
keep it simple and it will be not to expensive

[LC-GTR-1969]

This place doesn't stop, good work gents. So....

Couldn't bring myself to do an RB30 or simillar setup.
Some of those options are clearly very logical, but it's just not me.
I like the idea of it being semi period correct. In spirit anyway.

agree 100%. 

 

The RB engines and 2JZ engines in an Lc torana concept does not interest me at all for someting I would own. I can see the appeal, but no soul or spirit IMO.

 

 

Those Power House engines are what started to make me think twice.
I'm not sure the 253 conversion would be that much more work, am I dreaming?
Triples and manifold......$2500.......look very cool, but you would want to be happy with the decision.
I assume the performance compared to a Holley is well worth it?

 

253 conversion is not so much the issue, engineering is. 1) they are anal (generally) and make you do things that may drive you crazy and 2) cost, engineering in itself is a few thousand. About half of your budget would disappear just in conversion and costs on engineering alone, before you have even built the engine, and a 253 will need a bit spent on it to perform well (as all engines). You will also need extactors made etc... You cant just drop in a 253 with a mild cam and a decent carb and expect more than just warm 202 performance.

 

Triples are the go, but shouldn't cost you 2500. You dont need webers, SUs will do the job as indicated by others, and purchase, rebuild and quick tune should be half that amount.

 

 

The diff seems to be a sticking point with all options.
I'm about to do a disk brake upgrade with new axels......do I consider a new diff now?
I'm not planning on ever having big rubber or tubs.

 

There are a few options with diffs. A banjo will hold if you dont drive like a d*ckhead (like I do lol), but idealy a hilux diff etc would be preferable. A 9 inch is overkill and will suck to much juice for your setup, but there are plenty of other options. 

 

I also wouldn't bother with disks on the rear but thats just me, GTR disks on the front yes, but the lights torries stop great with drums at the back. I would use that money to upgrade the diff personally. If you decide to go V8 thats different, however.

Edited by LC-GTR-1969, 29 March 2016 - 07:30 PM.

[LC-GTR-1969]

Those Power House engines are what started to make me think twice.
 

 

The engine shown earlier from powerhouse engines, in an LC/LJ torana with a 4 speed, with decent rubber should go low 13s without any trouble. With a strong diff and confidence in the drivetrain, high 12s is not out of the question. 

 

I know you are not interested in racing, but as a point of reference, that engine in a small 'rana would be likely quicker than the LS powered SS dunnydores, which is not bad really, all things considered.... In saying that though, the setup would need to be revved, so it would not be that great under 2500rpm where the V8 would shine.