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Staight Gas Setups in Torana's

Started by _Viper_ , Aug 14 2006 08:46 PM

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58 replies to this topic

#51 Heath

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:25 PM

Then prices of everything relating to Toranas skyrocket...

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#52 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:27 PM

It would be my thoughts that everyone on this site that has a v8 torrie got one because they wanted one, and was prepared to pay for the privilege of this(there are cheaper alternatives)(petrol has never been cheap in this country and v8s have always been considered expensive on fuel), anyone with a good argument that a v8 is needed for basic transportation speak up! It sickens me that the government has now thrown $2000 of mine and everyone else�s money at anyone owning such a vehicle to now run it on cheaper fuel. Making it cheaper to run encourages more use, please don�t drivel on otherwise��that is a fact.
Sure LPG has far less toxic emissions, and produces less global warming carbon dioxide per kJ, about 20% less. However, this will easily be offset by the overall increase in consumption of lpg over what the owner would have used if the car was still on petrol fuel used due to the price diff.
The environment is a complex issue. The ecological footprint a person places on the environment is a factor of many sources. To assume just because an individual drives a car or v8 they are more of a problem is very simplistic. What is the energy rating of the house you live in? What form of heating do you use? Do you recycle? Do you participate in community environmental initiatives? The fact that a Torry has survived 30+ years means a lot less energy has been consumed than pumping out a rice burner every 15 years. The new cars are more fuel efficient but require more inputs to produce than that Torry did!

Toranavista: yes the environment is a complex issue. However, there is nothing complex in the logic that if one gets a handout to convert to a cheaper fuel then more fuel will be burnt which will be ultimately worse for the environment......this is still going to be true regardless of the quality of the insulation that is in my ceiling. As I did state previously why should those that have invested in smaller efficient vehicles now turn around and finance those that have chosen(of their own free will), to purchase large 4wd,v8s to do more damage to the environment.
ALX76 Re the energy of manufacturing new cars. Sure if a torrie is not driven much then you are doing the country a favour by not requiring more energy to be diverted into building another car, a politician wouldnt see it that way.....more cars being built is good for the economy......but thats just shortsightedness......
I dont know what the break even point is in tanks of petrol in terms of building a new car, but suggest that your figures of the total volume of fuel used by four toranas in the lifetime is much more than the energy req to make a new car.
Using your figs ALX76, 4 toranas run for a lifetime: ~300000km x 4 at 15L/100km = 180000litres = ~150 tonnes = ~ 5-6 petrol tankers full of fuel is req to make one new car......at a petrol cost of $250000?, okay they use cheaper brown coal, but seriously this looks very wrong if takes that much energy to make a new car......where are you getting this info from?

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#53 Toranavista

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:46 PM

LOL

Don't forget to subtract the amount of fuel a new car will use anyway.

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#54 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 11:06 PM

[I dont know what the break even point is in tanks of petrol in terms of building a new car, but suggest that your figures of the total volume of fuel used by four toranas in the lifetime is much more than the energy req to make a new car.
Using your figs ALX76, 4 toranas run for a lifetime: ~300000km x 4 at 15L/100km = 180000litres = ~150 tonnes = ~ 5-6 petrol tankers full of fuel is req to make one new car......at a petrol cost of $250000?, okay they use cheaper brown coal, but seriously this looks very wrong if takes that much energy to make a new car......where are you getting this info from?

i am talking about the total emmissions output of the manufacture of a new car from start to finish including production line, parts manufacture/shipping, even the workers traveling to work, there is a study that i had to reflect on at TAFE when doing my automotive courses, dont ask me to quote the study just take it or leave it, or look it up yourself, i more mentioned it for food for thought rather than a debate, but when you think about the amount of plastics, urethanes, the smelting and shipping of steel etc etc it all starts to add up, this sum was then compaired to the general emmission out of a 10 to 20 yr old car and the findings were that 4 old cars over their life would put out the same amount as one new car from start to car yard.

Edited by ALX76, 26 August 2006 - 11:07 PM.

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#55 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 11:34 PM

, dont ask me to quote the study just take it or leave it, or look it up yourself, i more mentioned it for food for thought rather than a debate,

Alx76, yes Im aware that you were referring to is for the whole process, starting with the energy used while the coal train driver was still in kindergarten etc.

I do accept the idea that hanging on to an old car could be better for the environment in terms of the energy wasted in manufacturing of a new car, but would really like to know where the break even point is. Ive always thought buying a Japanese car would have a high break even point, one has to dig the iron ore out of the ground in Australia, transport it to Japan, make it into a car and ship it back here. The car has really already got 20000km on the clock in terms of emissions b4 its driven an inch compared to a locally manufactured car.

Edited by devilsadvocate, 26 August 2006 - 11:37 PM.

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#56 _oikurtman_

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:20 PM

um.... what are the pros and cons of dual fuel vs. straight gas?

are those dual throttle body LPG systems good? what are they like on gas consumption and perforemance?

cheers.

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#57 _JNR_ATE_

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 01:10 AM

My torry goes in on monday to get its GRA twin gas setup, i will let you all now what sort of response i get out of it, pics on the way too.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

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#58 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 01:51 AM

um.... what are the pros and cons of dual fuel vs. straight gas?

There are several +ves for going dual fuel:
1. LPG is not available everywhere in Australia
2. A snap strike in LPG supplies doesnt even make the news, you can be stranded
3. Running out of fuel doesnt require a tow to the nearest filling station
4. LPG fillers and pumps can be troublesome: not letting you get gas in the tank

-ves for dual fuel

1. must retain all adr27a emission controls(talking old cars here)
2. spark gap and heat range is a compromise for lpg and petrol
3. timing is a compromise for both (can be programmed with computers on newer cars(hence car is not as economical or powerful on either fuel)
4. petrol advance curve has to be retained for dizzy
5. any motor rebuild must be done to petrol specs, compression ratio is best increased for optimum running on lpg and different cam profile used.
4. cant rip out petrol tank for more storage
5. car is heavier
6. switching between has extra components and this can cause probs if carby not used often
7. another filler point has to be put on the car rather than replacing the petrol filler with a gas one.
8. gra dont do dual fuel(or maybe they do now?)
9. gas mixers need very little maintenance(my experience with Impco ) or go out of tuning
10. spark plug life 100 000km+
11. no fuel contamination of oil, longer periods between oil changes.....theoretically longer engine life. This would obviously depend on how much time one spent running on petrol

They are possibly more that will come to mind as soon as I send......

Edited by devilsadvocate, 16 September 2006 - 01:57 AM.