57 replies to this topic

[MFM]

What methods/tools do people use these days to detect the quantity and location of body filler in classic cars. I mean if you are looking to buy a classic car, how do you know its not full of bog through accident damage or rust? Thought I would share my rudimentary method I used on my car when I bought it. I cut a small piece off the corner of one of those paper thin fridge magnets. I then place a small clip seal bag on the panel/s and put the piece of magnet on top figuring that the magnet then has to try and stick through 2 layers of plastic. I then grab the tail of the plastic bag and drag it up and down every panel figuring the magnet will fall off at the hint of bog. Took about three stubbies to do every inch of my car. That's boredom for you

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[MFM]

Oh and I am pleased to say I only found a small patch under the rear bumper bar whatever that panel is called (bever panel?) which was caused from reversing into a bollard years ago (according to previous owner) and another patch under the front bever panel next to front number plate.

[lj72bathurst]

You can buy a special detector tool for about
$200.

[yel327]

Do they sell bullshit detection equipment too?

[MFM]

Really? I knew there's be something out there these days. Would be worth its weight in gold if you were intending to buy a classic.

[MFM]

Jealousy detectors are more fun to use.

[lj72bathurst]

Really? I knew there's be something out there these days. Would be worth its weight in gold if you were intending to buy a classic.

https://varietypaint...iller-detective

[MFM]

The reason for this seemingly waste of time is not to brag but as I'm trying to convince myself that I should re-paint this car back to its original Chateau Mauve and I'm trying to work out whats under the red.. The car was painted Salamanca red back in the late 70's and they just blew a coat over the original paint . The red is flaking off in lots of spots (see photos of roof front and back) exposing the original Chateau so was trying to work out whether its worth the effort (considering the red is pretty good - see photos) sanding back to the original Chateau and give it a repaint. I'm not keen on a full strip as I want to retain the original red lead undercoat and most of the original paint particularly around the inside/underneath of the doors which is flaking off using your finger nails. Anyone have a rough idea what a decent panel beater/painter this would cost to do this these days using Acrylic lacquer (not 2 pac).

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[rexy]

12-16k plus inevitable rust repairs.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

I'd say start at 20k if that came into my shop.

[lakeside]

Get really to spend $50K+ if things turn to shit due to the body not what you thought it was. 

[73SUNBURSTEXYOUWON]

I'd say start at 20k if that came into my shop.

Yep as above... be prepared for $20K plus$ on paint and panel. Been there done that.. as most have.

[MFM]

Ok and would that price factor in that I don't want it stripped back, just sanded down till you hit the original undercoat (assuming that its still there) and no stripping back  and no engine bay or inside boot painted (as its original paint in these area's and I don't want that touched nor underneath?

[S pack]

Ok and would that price factor in that I don't want it stripped back, just sanded down till you hit the original undercoat (assuming that its still there) and no stripping back  and no engine bay or inside boot painted (as its original paint in these area's and I don't want that touched nor underneath?

I wouldn't go back as far as the original undercoat. If the Salamanca Red is not too thick just sand it back to the Chateau Mauve. You could save a lot of $$$$ by wet sanding the red off yourself.

 

Edited by S pack, 02 October 2020 - 06:04 PM.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

If your going to invest in a respray on a classic car such as this you wouldn't just "sand" it back to the original undercoat, you would bare metal it.
You will never get straight panels and it will be mission impossible to just wet rub it to the Mauve.
If you want straight panels as soon as the blocking starts, it will cut through whatever is there on the highs.
You will be disappointed in the finish if you just have this sanded back and hit with acrylic.
Bare metal it and finish it in 2k. I can't understand why anyone would want to use acrylic in this day and age.
Looking to the future also, should it ever be resprayed again, you cannot put 2k over acrylic. The acrylic will move underneath and you will be in a world of hurt.
Even for a closed door respray on this, I would still say start at 20k (Bare metal finish in 2k)
I own a panel shop and we won't touch the oldies with a 20ft pole for under 20k and all that nasty acrylic has to come off.

[lx308]

Yep, it's all the prep that costs the money.

[grumpy xu1]

If your going to invest in a respray on a classic car such as this you wouldn't just "sand" it back to the original undercoat, you would bare metal it.
You will never get straight panels and it will be mission impossible to just wet rub it to the Mauve.
If you want straight panels as soon as the blocking starts, it will cut through whatever is there on the highs.
You will be disappointed in the finish if you just have this sanded back and hit with acrylic.
Bare metal it and finish it in 2k. I can't understand why anyone would want to use acrylic in this day and age.
Looking to the future also, should it ever be resprayed again, you cannot put 2k over acrylic. The acrylic will move underneath and you will be in a world of hurt.
Even for a closed door respray on this, I would still say start at 20k (Bare metal finish in 2k)
I own a panel shop and we won't touch the oldies with a 20ft pole for under 20k and all that nasty acrylic has to come off.

I would completely agree with this, well stated on the lot. Acrylic is crap, it's only 1 step up from enamel in my eyes.

[claysummers]

I started out this way with my FB ute but this was intended to be s budget tidy up, with the car only costing me $3k. I was hoping to rub off the crap respray and seal with something cheap and cheerful. In the end I hand stripped all bar interior, 2k etched, and refinished in acrylic. Fortunately a very original car with virtually no filler.

The pros won't touch acrylic but it works for me. I still spent 4$k in materials and hundreds of hours. So work out if you want to do it yourself, value your time, and you'll soon see where $20k goes.

If the underlying paint is pretty good you can avoid going bare metal and still get it straight if you use acrylic but given the price of your starting point the investment be worthwhile.

Don't just rub it back and paint it. The minor dents and waves will stand out and you won't be happy with it.

My 2c worth.
Cheers
Clay

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[grumpy xu1]

Mark, honestly, high quality epoxy etch of today, is basically the modern version of the old red lead, that you wish to keep. I myself as I'm sure you're all aware like the sikkens ep, which in a shop such as Adam's you would get + the whole sikkens system. In the original paint job, the lead coat was probably the best thing on it, the rest is pretty crap really. Anybody who would still do an acrylic job now, would use 2 pack epoxy, 2 pack high build & then the acrylic anyway. Now it's not the acrylic that's going to be the best thing in the mix. It's nowhere near as durable, won't last as long, needs way more coats to get the same build thickness & coverage & on each coat there's more chance of a run or nibs in the paint. Nowhere near as consistent in finnish. With 2 pack, you could shoot 3 coats of chatue mauve & 4 coats of clear, have enough to block it flat if you wish & it will see you out.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

👍 spot on Gaz

[grumpy xu1]

In regards to filler, which I'm sure Adam will agree, a quality filler, used in the way it's intended, is fine. It is to be "no" thicker than 1/4" but preferably 1/8" & under. When it's used with the 2 pack system properly over the epoxy, it's sealed both sides, not like it is with an all acrylic job. Therefore you do not in cure the same sort of problems from filling over bare steel. Some "classics" had filler from the factory if needed. I've seen it & worked with guy's who painted them in the 70's to be honest.

[MFM]

Thanks for this information. I guess my brain is still living in the 80's with acrylic and lambswool buffing pads. Although I'm going to say money has nothing to do with it, I guess it does because it already owes me 75k (purchase price 2 years ago) and another 10k since (tyres/brakes bits and pieces) If I'd bought it 10-20 years ago it would be worthwhile, so yes I'm looking at a compromise restoration that will bring it back to original paint. 

Original paint colour I meant

[claysummers]

Let’s say you are in the jaws of a dilemma. All that cash spent and a bad paint job. Live with it for a couple more years until you can afford to get it done properly, then hang on to it.


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[grumpy xu1]

Adams 20 grand start figure might sound like a lot. But 20 years ago the products where 1/3 of the amount today & an outside job was 7 - 9 grand, really considering that the bodies aren't as good as back then in most cases & the vast amount of labour required, it's actually quite reasonable.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Plenty of shops will do it for less than that but you get what you pay for.
Sikkens warrant their paint for life against defects too. You won't get that from the shop that resprays your car for 6-8 grand.