57 replies to this topic

[rexy]

The reason for this seemingly waste of time is not to brag but as I'm trying to convince myself that I should re-paint this car back to its original Chateau Mauve and I'm trying to work out whats under the red.. The car was painted Salamanca red back in the late 70's and they just blew a coat over the original paint . The red is flaking off in lots of spots (see photos of roof front and back) exposing the original Chateau so was trying to work out whether its worth the effort (considering the red is pretty good - see photos) sanding back to the original Chateau and give it a repaint. I'm not keen on a full strip as I want to retain the original red lead undercoat and most of the original paint particularly around the inside/underneath of the doors which is flaking off using your finger nails. Anyone have a rough idea what a decent panel beater/painter this would cost to do this these days using Acrylic lacquer (not 2 pac).

I suppose we forgot to ask the obvious question.

 

What do you want to do with the car? Is it a keep forever live in the shed and rarely out going to shows car? Is it going to be driven a lot and parked here and there?

 

I like to drive mine as much as possible and have lived through having cars that were “too nice” and worrying about every little chip and mark. There’s a big difference between a clean streeter and a showy car.

 

Pick the price/quality point that suits what YOU want to do.

[MFM]

My opinion on this whole topic is that every XU1 (as with all classics) is that every car is unique in itself these days. Some have mismatched engines/running gear, others have matching running gear but missing tags, others have everything that matches but need lots of body repairs due to accident or rust repairs, you get my drift. The lucky ones have everything matching and great body shells and very few are in great original shape with original paint. They are all have their own unique set of problems. I'm extremely happy with my purchase as my unique problem is only paint colour. The bottom line for me is I just want my car to be as close to how it came from the factory as I can achieve including all original (date matched)parts and paint type. I don't want a show car as I drive mine at least fortnightly. 

[UCSLE]

Plenty of shops will do it for less than that but you get what you pay for.
Sikkens warrant their paint for life against defects too. You won't get that from the shop that resprays your car for 6-8 grand.

you don't always get what you pay for , if you run a workshop you would know the differences in overheads such as rent / repayments can be huge 

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

you don't always get what you pay for , if you run a workshop you would know the differences in overheads such as rent / repayments can be huge

Really don't understand the point your trying to make here?

[S pack]

Really don't understand the point your trying to make here?

eg: just because you choose the most expensive quote for the work does not always translate into the best quality job.

Some businesses have higher overheads than others so their charge out rates are higher but the quality of their work may not be any better than the cheaper shop down road.

Recommendation/referral is a good start to getting a quality job.

Edited by S pack, 06 October 2020 - 07:11 AM.

[u1 71]

Just leave it how it is the end result might not be up to your liking

[RedTaxi]

Just had my LX hatch done. I would do the same again. Bare metal, minor rust done, epoxy sealed, block it flat and straight, 2 pak. Don't start if you don't have 30k.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Word of mouth is everything.
If a shop was charging 20k + and dishing up rubbish their reputation would soon be rubbish therefore they would not be getting 20k + jobs in the first place.

My overheads are quote low but I would charge 20k because our reputation is excellent and quite frankly that's what the job is worth.

[S pack]

Mostly agree, however these businesses churning out average quality work seem to survive. Yes, amongst the people who have had dealings with them the word will spread to a certain extent as people will usually tell a greater number of people when they feel they have been ripped off wronged. Unfortunately there will always another sucker victim that does not know about the businesses bad reputation.

Edited by S pack, 06 October 2020 - 06:17 PM.

[Ice]

Dont start me on panels shops some are just rogues

[MFM]

I wouldn't sleep at night leaving my car at a panel shop for a few weeks. People coming and going, snooping at the car, taking photos/video's and sending it to all and sundry .I need to find someone who works from home. Anyone have a recommendation (Gold Coast)?

[rexy]

Few weeks?

Tell him he’s dreaming!

[lx308]

Few weeks?
Tell him he’s dreaming!

Hahahaha!

[rexy]

My opinion on this whole topic is that every XU1 (as with all classics) is that every car is unique in itself these days. Some have mismatched engines/running gear, others have matching running gear but missing tags, others have everything that matches but need lots of body repairs due to accident or rust repairs, you get my drift. The lucky ones have everything matching and great body shells and very few are in great original shape with original paint. They are all have their own unique set of problems. I'm extremely happy with my purchase as my unique problem is only paint colour. The bottom line for me is I just want my car to be as close to how it came from the factory as I can achieve including all original (date matched)parts and paint type. I don't want a show car as I drive mine at least fortnightly. 

That’s an interesting point about originality. Value seems to follow originality for these cars, even the ones that aren’t original but have been “restored” to a similar state. 
 

So many on here have chased down date correct parts that were never on their car, recreated (faked?) paint colour on driveshafts and suspension bits, date paint markings and ink stamps, “factory” overspray on bellhousings, reproduction “fake” clamps, screws, battery leads, battery tops and even dealer stickers for the window etc etc....

 

So if all of these things are thought to add value, is more value added to the car by “recreating” an original factory average quality paint and body job In original paint type than a perfectly straight top notch job in 2 pack?

[MFM]

Mmmmm...welcome to my weird world where I am trying to keep everything as original as possible but I am getting the impression I'm definitely the odd one out, because my car is far from perfect. I've touched on this exact topic a few times because the paint in my engine bay (and boot) is factory original but the engine bay particularly along the radiator support is begging for paint including the horns but horns still have their original sticker on them so therein lies the dilemma  . Live with the 'used' look or go the full hog and spend big $$.  Full restoration does look 100% more pleasing to the eye because my factory engine bay paint finish is pretty ordinary.

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[grumpy xu1]

You could factor in 3 months for the repaint, by the way & if someone tells you that they will do it, "in a few weeks" turn on the key & leave, as i guarantee it will be a crap job. TRUST ME !

[grumpy xu1]

That’s an interesting point about originality. Value seems to follow originality for these cars, even the ones that aren’t original but have been “restored” to a similar state. 
 
So many on here have chased down date correct parts that were never on their car, recreated (faked?) paint colour on driveshafts and suspension bits, date paint markings and ink stamps, “factory” overspray on bellhousings, reproduction “fake” clamps, screws, battery leads, battery tops and even dealer stickers for the window etc etc....
 
So if all of these things are thought to add value, is more value added to the car by “recreating” an original factory average quality paint and body job In original paint type than a perfectly straight top notch job in 2 pack?

Some of us also have parts with original colours, marks decals ect on them to. I however spend way too much time colour matching my parts, as i can't just slap om anything. There's a big difference between a correct "restoration" & some of the other's or a rebuild style job. I however don't share my formulas or photo's. My own choice for my vehicle is to have it appear as if it was stored at the dealership from new, or locked in a shed, as i am younger than the car, i obviously couldn't buy it new. But I'd like it, as if my parent's had. The owner of the ck is of the same mind, so i get where he's coming from. There is a few of us who share our part finnishes as we restore them to complete the restoration as it suits us. It might not be for everyone, but we're lucky enough that we all think the same way !

As for Mark's car, there comes a time when everything needs restoring. Personally if something was losing the primer & rusting the parent steel, than i would be restoring that item. If i was wanting to keep it as untouched as possible.

[jd lj]

I agree with Gary, there comes a point where deteriorating paint is no longer preserving the steel underneath. You don't want a genuine XU-1 that's slowly rusting away because you wanted to keep the paint original.

However unfortunately to do these cars properly and protect them from the elements they need a full strip down which in my opinion from what I've seen includes guards off etc otherwise you can't access areas prone to rust. Even cars that look good rust wise tend to have rust in these hard to reach places.

To get the job done properly it'll be much longer than a few weeks more like months or around a year depending upon how the panel shop rotates through the cars they are restoring.

Take photos of all the inspection marks and stickers etc, bag everything up individually and label where they go even every bolt etc since your car is quite original.

You need deep pockets, deeper than what you originally planned, regardless of the original estimate.

[MFM]

I watch a fair bit of the US 'barn find' type shows on the internet (Barn find hunter etc) and it seems to me that those unmolested albeit worn/used American muscle cars appear to carry some value in their ' used not abused' condition. Its certainly a debatable topic and there is no right or wrong answer. I suppose the attraction I personally had with my car was that it was mostly unmolested. The body is pretty bloody straight and I don't believe its ever had a crash causing any panel damage (other than small bumps under the front and rear bars). I've personally painted about 10 cars in my life time (2 of which were bare metal re-sprays), however I am no expert but I'm no fool either. You can tell if a car has had a crash or 2.

 

The bottom line is that I paid top dollar for my car (because I bought it in the last 2 years) so there's no financial gain in spending another 30k to fully restore it otherwise I should have simply bought a fully restored car. I'm going to cop some flack saying this but most members who currently own XU1's on this forum probably bought them at a time when  they were worth less than 20k, so to spend another 50k restoring them 'properly' now is not even a consideration (provided you have this sort of coin) because you will come out at the end with a fully restored car in near mint condition for the same price I paid for mine.

 

All these considerations crossed my mind before I handed over my coin. I'm an average wage earner (government worker) but the decision was solely based on my car being authentic and I knew most of its history. I would never even consider purchasing an XU1 these days unless it had provenance and even then I would be distrustful.

[MFM]

I should add that is is by no means a cheap shot at those that bought their cars when they were reasonably priced. I only wish I had the foresight to predict the crazy rise in Australian muscle cars (as we all would be rich now), just making an observation. So please don't be offended by my comments.

[Ice]

Leave it the way it is for a couple of years and drive the pants off it
see how you feel then but original colour Chateau would be a bonus on that car
imho

[grumpy xu1]

I should add that is is by no means a cheap shot at those that bought their cars when they were reasonably priced. I only wish I had the foresight to predict the crazy rise in Australian muscle cars (as we all would be rich now), just making an observation. So please don't be offended by my comments.

Absolutely no offense taken by myself mate. I certainly haven't got a lot of coin. Yes my car was cheaper when i bought it, i can do a lot myself. But things are still a lot of money. Having good quality tools is expensive aswell, but necessary for me. I certainly won't elaborate on that publicly though. I'm probably 1 of the most fussy or anal people you'd meet on somethings too, I'm sure other's would agree. I just figure, there's no point doing something twice. & i want to be happy that it looks how it should, before i move on to the next thing.

[rexy]

So anyone willing to commit to whether a recreation of the factory quality paint and panel in acrylic or a superstar razor sharp perfect gaps 2 pack job adds the most value to an XU-1?

[lx308]

So anyone willing to commit to whether a recreation of the factory quality paint and panel in acrylic or a superstar razor sharp perfect gaps 2 pack job adds the most value to an XU-1?

If you had 2 identical XU-1's side by side, with the only difference being 1 has perfect gaps, lines & mint, glass finish 2 pack paint; I feel the top panel n paint would bring more money.

[MFM]

Good point!. I guess I like to look at the car market for this answer. Out of all the big three Australian muscle cars that have sold in the last 10 years (for arguments sake) which fetched the most $. The cars that were all original in their original (good acrylic paint  ) or the pristine 2 pack cars. There's a third dimension you should have included in this question. Cars with their factory original acrylic as distinct from ones that were touched up or restored in acrylic (which is what I'm thinking about) .

 

Actually don't know the answer to this but Jeff Thomson's GT comes to mind as I believe his was quite unmolested (Not totally sure on this) and pulled 1 mill? I do think however that the original factory untouched paint pull more money than re-paints in acrylic and 2 pack. 

 

 

I found this extract from an expert (USA) and yes its only one persons opinion but it does skew this debate to the acrylic side of the argument (because the finished product in 2 pack with all gaps perfect etc will not reflect how the car was originally manufactured). If you want to read the full text google 'restore or conserve - here's how to maintain a survivor car'

 

"The key with working on a survivor car is you have to do any work so it cannot be detected that you fixed this or replaced that," says Gibson. "I only repair things if I think doing so will enhance the value of the car. By value I am not talking as much about the money value as much as the historical reference value—how the car originally was produced. Does it distract from the reference originality of this car? If an unused hole is there, it is because it is supposed to be"