Heres a quick video, it gets a little squiggly through 2nd
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Some other things i've been working on
Started by
_jabba_
, Jun 14 2009 11:23 PM
309 replies to this topic
#126
_jabba_
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Posted 28 February 2011 - 10:00 PM
Did a bit more tuning tonight, pulled some fuel out where the turbo is spooling because it was going as rich as 10.5:1. It now spools a lot quicker, we also gave it an extra 2psi of boost bumping it upto 12psi. The new found torque is too much for the clutch and it starts to slip at the top end of 3rd and 4th.
Heres a quick video, it gets a little squiggly through 2nd.
Heres a quick video, it gets a little squiggly through 2nd
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#127
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Posted 01 March 2011 - 10:31 PM
Fitted an oil catch can tonight, not entirely happy with the way i ran the hose but it will do for now.
Did some more tuning, smoothed the maps out more in the lower load areas. Basically just drove around accelerating with part throttle from 2000-6000rpm and adding/removing fuel where required. I tried my best to hit different load points. It payed off because it goes even harder now. The engine feels very smooth, pulls through the revs faster and feels less boggy. Its getting a little loose in the rear end in 3rd now and lights up 2nd whenever it comes on boost
. It even sounds different.
The air is a bit colder tonight and the boost was spiking a bit, hitting 13psi and occasionally boost cut @ 14psi. Pitty there isnt a MAT correction for the EBC. Maybe i can play with the KPA target boost rather than just using duty cycle. Something to play with anyway.
Did some more tuning, smoothed the maps out more in the lower load areas. Basically just drove around accelerating with part throttle from 2000-6000rpm and adding/removing fuel where required. I tried my best to hit different load points. It payed off because it goes even harder now. The engine feels very smooth, pulls through the revs faster and feels less boggy. Its getting a little loose in the rear end in 3rd now and lights up 2nd whenever it comes on boost
. It even sounds different.The air is a bit colder tonight and the boost was spiking a bit, hitting 13psi and occasionally boost cut @ 14psi. Pitty there isnt a MAT correction for the EBC. Maybe i can play with the KPA target boost rather than just using duty cycle. Something to play with anyway
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#128
_gen3torrie_
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Posted 01 March 2011 - 11:54 PM
hahahahaha love it mate thing looks like it goes hard.
i remember my first time driving a turbo car, it was back in my stecki days took a 01 liberty that we fittted with an 06 forester motor in it couldn't believe it,
i remember my first time driving a turbo car, it was back in my stecki days took a 01 liberty that we fittted with an 06 forester motor in it couldn't believe it,
#129
View GaragePosted 02 March 2011 - 05:54 AM
Sounds like you're doing a good job of the tuning, just watch that you tune to consistent conditions wherever possible - includes not only the weather but things like the amount of fuel in the tank etc etc (some things may not make much of a difference, others may change things quite a bit)The air is a bit colder tonight
#130
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Posted 02 March 2011 - 08:36 AM
Yeah thats a fair point. I guess it would be better to tune in cold weather rather than hot. When it gets hot the engine should run a little richer. I guess i have to be careful when i have a really cold night that it doesnt lean out too much. I can do MAT based correction, no idea how much i have to correct by tho. I dont remember the intake temp from last night but the night before was between 36-38degree's. The turbo is sucking its air from behind the radiator so the intercooler must be doing a good job. When on boost and giving the car a workout the intake temps actually drop which supprised me a little. I guess thats just the extra air flow across the IC.
I have EGO correction on for cruise (closed loop?), that trims up the cruise maps below 100kpa and 50% throttle up to 15%.
I'm not sure if fuel level would matter since i have a swirl pot, but fuel quality could be an issue. I find with my Subaru (04 Liberty GT) if i fill up around home at United or BP i always get a good batch of fuel, but when i travel i'm forever getting a bad batchs and the car surges like a pig (it pings its head off on anything but good quality 98).
I have EGO correction on for cruise (closed loop?), that trims up the cruise maps below 100kpa and 50% throttle up to 15%.
I'm not sure if fuel level would matter since i have a swirl pot, but fuel quality could be an issue. I find with my Subaru (04 Liberty GT) if i fill up around home at United or BP i always get a good batch of fuel, but when i travel i'm forever getting a bad batchs and the car surges like a pig (it pings its head off on anything but good quality 98).
Edited by jabba, 02 March 2011 - 08:41 AM.
#131
Posted 02 March 2011 - 11:03 AM
Fuel level, passengers is more of a weight thing. It doesn't matter if you are checking everything under different conditions, just don't go into great detail in one part of the map on one day with specific conditions, then move to another part on a different day with completely different conditions as you'll end up with an inconsistent tune. You're probably taking care with this already, just thought I'd mention it.
It sounds like its all going well, wish I could find the enthusiasm to get back into the garage at present!
It sounds like its all going well, wish I could find the enthusiasm to get back into the garage at present!
#132
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Posted 02 March 2011 - 12:24 PM
Ahh fair enough. When tuning we always have the two of us in the car, one driving and one driving the laptop and yeah fuel is always 3/4 empty . I know where your coming from tho.
We've just been tuning to the afr gauge trying to keep the fueling in the correct areas for the kind of load the engine is under. I should download a dyno app for my phone but im worried my diff wont last as long if i start launching it
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I'm kinda scared to touch the ignition timing, theres probably big gains to be had but i think that would be a job for a dyno. We have been very conservative with the timing in the top end, pulling plenty of timing out under boost. I think its running 17degree's @ 12psi from memory.
. I know where your coming from tho. We've just been tuning to the afr gauge trying to keep the fueling in the correct areas for the kind of load the engine is under. I should download a dyno app for my phone but im worried my diff wont last as long if i start launching it
.I'm kinda scared to touch the ignition timing, theres probably big gains to be had but i think that would be a job for a dyno. We have been very conservative with the timing in the top end, pulling plenty of timing out under boost. I think its running 17degree's @ 12psi from memory.
#133
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Posted 15 March 2011 - 08:29 PM
There was an intermittent tach signal problem that was causing the car to stall and randomly not start, pulled the dissy out and the mild steel welds on the stainless ring inside the dissy wasnt holding allowing the guts to move around a little (moving the vr sensor away from the cam). While i have that out to fix it i thought i might tidy up a few bits and pieces that have been bugging me.
Today i fixed the water hoses, i really hated how messy they were before. Not perfect but much nicer now.
Before
After
Also made errr... this
The dump pipe is off to be hit with the die grinder and smooth out where i joined the flange to the old dump pipe, should be able to enlarge it a bit so it might free the exhaust up a little more. Also changed the oil since i have done 1000km's and replaced the plain water with coolant.
Today i fixed the water hoses, i really hated how messy they were before. Not perfect but much nicer now.
Before
After
Also made errr... this
The dump pipe is off to be hit with the die grinder and smooth out where i joined the flange to the old dump pipe, should be able to enlarge it a bit so it might free the exhaust up a little more. Also changed the oil since i have done 1000km's and replaced the plain water with coolant.
#134
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Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:51 PM
Bumped the boost up a little and put my EBC to good use and made a tps and rpm based boost control.
0-10% throttle - 5psi
10-90% throttle - 10psi
100% throttle - 15psi until 6000rpm then 16psi (just coz i could).
Its so much more drivable with the TPS based boost, 3/4 throttle makes the car go fast but still controllable, squeeze the throttle a little more and it just takes off.
I have the EBC closed 10-100% throttle from idle - 3000rpm instead of 2500rpm, spools much faster now.
Turbo is pretty well at its max now, its slow to produce any more boost past 16psi. Its probably just pumping heat after there anyway. I'm happy to leave it where it is now. Any further boost would require a new turbo, a grand or more for a couple more psi is just not worth it. Car goes like a shower of shit, it was as fast as a 307 VE HSV on 10psi so it would piss that guy off now.
0-10% throttle - 5psi
10-90% throttle - 10psi
100% throttle - 15psi until 6000rpm then 16psi (just coz i could).
Its so much more drivable with the TPS based boost, 3/4 throttle makes the car go fast but still controllable, squeeze the throttle a little more and it just takes off.
I have the EBC closed 10-100% throttle from idle - 3000rpm instead of 2500rpm, spools much faster now
.Turbo is pretty well at its max now, its slow to produce any more boost past 16psi. Its probably just pumping heat after there anyway. I'm happy to leave it where it is now. Any further boost would require a new turbo, a grand or more for a couple more psi is just not worth it. Car goes like a shower of shit, it was as fast as a 307 VE HSV on 10psi so it would piss that guy off now
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#136
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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:00 AM
I removed the swaybar last night, its stopped being an oversteer pig and the ride is so much smoother/softer. I think the swaybar could have been binding in its bushes. It understeers but thats corrected with lots of power oversteer. I'm going to reinstall the swaybar tonight lubing the d rubbers so the bar doesnt bind.
#137
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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:06 AM
Nice, you seem to be getting on top of it now
Yep its fantastic. Most fun car i've ever driven.
I did some autotune on the cruise part of the maps leaning it out to 15.5afr under light throttle. Before i found when it was cruising at 4000rpm it would be as rich as 12.5afr, i had my initial afr targets set more like a N/A car but this thing cruises @ 3,800rpm doing 110 @ 10' vacuum so no need to be so rich.
One day i will have to put it on a solid state dyno and tune the ignition map, its not really something i can do on the road and im sure it has more power to give.
#138
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Posted 26 March 2011 - 11:20 PM
Last weekend while i was out leaning the cruise and light throttle mixtures i managed to blow up the turbo. It seems rb25 turbos dont like heat and the ceramic turbine parted company :(.
Thats not gravel, thats ceramic turbine my cat caught :S.
This is where the turbine used to live.
I bought another turbo for $150 but while removing the exhaust housing i chipped the bloody turbine :@. I fitted it anyway and so far no problems but it seems i'm looking for a new turbo again so when this one dies i have a replacement :(. Id say it will just wear out quicker, not explode.
I have returned the tune to how it was before, it felt really responsive with the leaner mixtures but the stupid ceramic turbo's just dont like high EGT and the richer mixtures cool the exhaust. I think people that kill these turbos are generally running fairly lean mixtures, it handled 15-16psi fine until i leaned the mixtures out a little then it shat its self at only 5-8psi with light throttle. I think ill have to invest in a EGT sensor since my wb02 controller supports them.
The new turbo ended up being a series 2 turbo with a nylon compressor and ceramic turbine wheels and it feels like it spools faster that the old one, but ill have to record some logs to see.
While the turbo was off i also heat wrapped the exhaust manifold and dump pipe all the way to the cat converter, the heat wrap created a big smoke show after a 5min drive. Its stopped smoking now tho.
Thats not gravel, thats ceramic turbine my cat caught :S.
This is where the turbine used to live
.I bought another turbo for $150 but while removing the exhaust housing i chipped the bloody turbine :@. I fitted it anyway and so far no problems but it seems i'm looking for a new turbo again so when this one dies i have a replacement :(. Id say it will just wear out quicker, not explode.
I have returned the tune to how it was before, it felt really responsive with the leaner mixtures but the stupid ceramic turbo's just dont like high EGT and the richer mixtures cool the exhaust. I think people that kill these turbos are generally running fairly lean mixtures, it handled 15-16psi fine until i leaned the mixtures out a little then it shat its self at only 5-8psi with light throttle. I think ill have to invest in a EGT sensor since my wb02 controller supports them.
The new turbo ended up being a series 2 turbo with a nylon compressor and ceramic turbine wheels and it feels like it spools faster that the old one, but ill have to record some logs to see
.While the turbo was off i also heat wrapped the exhaust manifold and dump pipe all the way to the cat converter, the heat wrap created a big smoke show after a 5min drive. Its stopped smoking now tho
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#139
Posted 27 March 2011 - 07:26 AM
Oops...
I have heard that the EGT sensor is a good thing too, could be a plan
I have heard that the EGT sensor is a good thing too, could be a plan
#140
_nzstato_
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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:24 AM
Need... More... Boost... I vote for the EGT sensor too, least that way you know when you are approaching the danger area, tuning wise.
#141
rodomo
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Posted 27 March 2011 - 09:19 AM
Ashes to ashes......Dust to dust...
Nice work but!
http://www.gmh-toran...-us-yr-blow-up/
#142
_BAILLIE_
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Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:41 PM
Hey mate, thanks for posting all this : )
Very inspiring thread.
I would love to try my hand at building up an EMS and doing all my own tuning on the lappy. Sounds like such fun and no doubt really good info to know, probably save a bomb and have peace of mind knowing the system back to front etc.
Very inspiring thread.
I would love to try my hand at building up an EMS and doing all my own tuning on the lappy. Sounds like such fun and no doubt really good info to know, probably save a bomb and have peace of mind knowing the system back to front etc.
Edited by BAILLIE, 28 March 2011 - 10:43 PM.
#143
_BAILLIE_
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Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:55 PM
OK, so you killed that turbo pretty sweetly, but you know exactly what caused the damage.
Why can't you tune the ignition on the road? That's the only place you drive it, i would think it's ideal compared to any dyno?
Surely you could do it well, you seem to have everything else sorted, it's just a matter of learning and testing right?
Why can't you tune the ignition on the road? That's the only place you drive it, i would think it's ideal compared to any dyno?
Surely you could do it well, you seem to have everything else sorted, it's just a matter of learning and testing right?
#144
Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:31 AM
Your VN wagon would be the ideal candidate for getting into tuning - you'll find all you need at delcohacking.net to tune the standard ECU cheap.
What you're aiming for with the ignition timing is maximum torque, easy to find on a suitable dyno. On the road you have to use something like a G-Tech meter (and power runs might be a bit grey in terms of legality) to find the fastest times in conjunction with a knock sensor to see when you've gone too far (which is dangerous with forced induction).
What you're aiming for with the ignition timing is maximum torque, easy to find on a suitable dyno. On the road you have to use something like a G-Tech meter (and power runs might be a bit grey in terms of legality) to find the fastest times in conjunction with a knock sensor to see when you've gone too far (which is dangerous with forced induction).
#145
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Posted 03 April 2011 - 10:15 PM
This weekend i replaced the water lines with braided line after they kept bursting no matter where i routed them. Looks much neater now, ill have to take some pics. (you were right whoever said they would burst, they dried out until they cracked). I dont know why i didnt think of using braided line earlier just with cheap fittings not the fancy speed flow jobbies.
The diff was on its last legs, it was making some really bad noises so i decided to swap the centre out for a new one. Long story short i think i used the wrong oil in the diff and the crown wheel and pinion ate each other. It was nice and silent, booted it down the road and it started to whine. a few hours later it started screeching whenever i was cruising so out it came again.
Here is the old diff centre.
I've stuck this centre back in now, but i've fixed it up by jamming 5 welding rods up its guts. It still has a weird tink tink tink noise at cruise, i swear i over welded everything . It will do until i find a ovlov diff.
The good news is i now have a spare celica diff housing i can cut the mounts off for the ovlov conversion.
The diff was on its last legs, it was making some really bad noises so i decided to swap the centre out for a new one. Long story short i think i used the wrong oil in the diff and the crown wheel and pinion ate each other. It was nice and silent, booted it down the road and it started to whine. a few hours later it started screeching whenever i was cruising so out it came again.
Here is the old diff centre.
I've stuck this centre back in now, but i've fixed it up by jamming 5 welding rods up its guts
. It still has a weird tink tink tink noise at cruise, i swear i over welded everything . It will do until i find a ovlov diff.The good news is i now have a spare celica diff housing i can cut the mounts off for the ovlov conversion.
Edited by jabba, 03 April 2011 - 10:17 PM.
#146
_BAILLIE_
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Posted 03 April 2011 - 11:23 PM
Thanks for the link manYour VN wagon would be the ideal candidate for getting into tuning - you'll find all you need at delcohacking.net to tune the standard ECU cheap.
What you're aiming for with the ignition timing is maximum torque, easy to find on a suitable dyno. On the road you have to use something like a G-Tech meter (and power runs might be a bit grey in terms of legality) to find the fastest times in conjunction with a knock sensor to see when you've gone too far (which is dangerous with forced induction).
I remember reading many of your posts on such matters with great interest. I will get cracking on my research.Ignition timing makes sense, but yeh, i would just do that on a quiet stretch of road. Jabba seems to have a good one already for all of his testing so far, right?
That's the spiritI've stuck this centre back in now, but i've fixed it up by jamming 5 welding rods up its guts
The good news is i now have a spare celica diff housing i can cut the mounts off for the ovlov conversion.
What is an ovlov conversion?
#147
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Posted 03 April 2011 - 11:40 PM
Volvo 240 series diffs are roughly the correct width for the celica, no shortening required. I have a torsion center ready and waiting, just need the diff. No one around here wrecks volvo's it seems.
#148
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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:19 AM
Ah ok. Sounds decent. Volvos have good brakes too apparently.
Nobody is wrecking because the dam cars never die? Haha, i am sure you could find something online and get it couriered or travel to pick up?
Nobody is wrecking because the dam cars never die? Haha, i am sure you could find something online and get it couriered or travel to pick up?
#149
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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:51 AM
I think they have twin pot rear callipers .
I think ill have to find a ovlov forum and see if someone can post me one. I just remembered that Toynats are in Dubbo over easter, i best get a new clutch and maybe sort out a new diff for some thrashing action he he he.
.I think ill have to find a ovlov forum and see if someone can post me one
. I just remembered that Toynats are in Dubbo over easter, i best get a new clutch and maybe sort out a new diff for some thrashing action he he he.
#150
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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:37 PM
Jabba is the dude on wheelers lane wrecking that volvo wagon just south of orana mall. PS has dad put mags on his stato Cheers Ron
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