I did the grab test this morning. With the guage reading about 180F and the motor idling, i grabbed the lower and upper hoses from the radiator. They were both pretty bloody hot, as in i couldn't hold on to them at all hardly, but the bottom hose felt a little bit cooler. Not a lot just a little.
I am sure a more accurate device would tell exact tempretures. I might try and get my hands on one to do some tests.
What should the hoses feel like? Obviously the bottom hose should be a colder than the top hose, but how much? I imagine it won't be freezing cold, but what sort of difference should be between the top and bottom hoses? I guess if its coming out of the bottom of the radiator still too hot, either my radiator is clogged or there isn't enough air getting pumped through the radiator, or the air isn't going fast enought through the radiator to cool the water down. Or something like that.
Steve
Overheating Problem -Blocked Cooling System
Started by
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, Nov 21 2006 05:01 PM
133 replies to this topic
#52
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:15 PM
Steve.. You should feel at least a 30 degree drop mate
From around 90 odd degrees on the top hose to somewhere around 50-60 degrees on the bottom hose ( well from what my feeling has shown in the past).
It's DEFINITELY noticable!
See if you can get one of those IR thermometers.. theyre great. After my system was re-done he shot around the spark plug area ( i take it the water jacket is close to the outside there on a 202) and came up with between 82 and 84 degrees! PERFECT he says!
From around 90 odd degrees on the top hose to somewhere around 50-60 degrees on the bottom hose ( well from what my feeling has shown in the past).
It's DEFINITELY noticable!
See if you can get one of those IR thermometers.. theyre great. After my system was re-done he shot around the spark plug area ( i take it the water jacket is close to the outside there on a 202) and came up with between 82 and 84 degrees! PERFECT he says!
#53
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 02:24 PM
G'day steve,
All you describe seems to suggest inadequate air flow through the radiator,but the grab test suggests, aleast a partial obstruction in the radiator. By all means upgrade to a more efficient fan, however i'd take it to a radiator specialist & have the top tank removed & make sure every tube is completely clear. At the very least you would know the rads fine.
All you describe seems to suggest inadequate air flow through the radiator,but the grab test suggests, aleast a partial obstruction in the radiator. By all means upgrade to a more efficient fan, however i'd take it to a radiator specialist & have the top tank removed & make sure every tube is completely clear. At the very least you would know the rads fine.
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 02:44 PM
Steve, the difference in temp will depend on the ambient temp. If you did it today in Melbourne when the ambient was 18C during the morning, then you would expect that the system wouldnt be challenged and the thermostat would be only partially open. This makes the flow of water through the rad much slower and higher drops of temp should be seen, maybe bottom hose at 45C.
When the system is at its limits, there may be only 4-5 degree(this figure is a little rubbery it depends on the car/load/airflow/radiator etc) drop across the radiator. Rather than wait around until you get a hot day to test for this, put some paper across 3/4 or more of the radiator to create higher than thermostat temps. Your bottom hose should be nearly as hot as the top, if it isnt flow is a prob.
Its possible with the IR sensor to get a reading on every tube in the radiator while it is working, this will tell you if any of the tubes are blocked. A colder tube will have some blockage. By pointing the IR sensor at the fins and getting a temp on them, you can also see whether the fins are getting hot too, typically a radiator's performance drops away as the fins deteriorate and the connection between fin and tube deteriorates. Not sure that all IR sensors are pinpoint enough for this though.
When the system is at its limits, there may be only 4-5 degree(this figure is a little rubbery it depends on the car/load/airflow/radiator etc) drop across the radiator. Rather than wait around until you get a hot day to test for this, put some paper across 3/4 or more of the radiator to create higher than thermostat temps. Your bottom hose should be nearly as hot as the top, if it isnt flow is a prob.
Its possible with the IR sensor to get a reading on every tube in the radiator while it is working, this will tell you if any of the tubes are blocked. A colder tube will have some blockage. By pointing the IR sensor at the fins and getting a temp on them, you can also see whether the fins are getting hot too, typically a radiator's performance drops away as the fins deteriorate and the connection between fin and tube deteriorates. Not sure that all IR sensors are pinpoint enough for this though.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 04 December 2006 - 02:53 PM.
#55
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 03:07 PM
Was timed out on my edit ^
It does appear that from your description, that even in todays mild melb temp that your system is near the edge and your pump is most likely working okay. Based on that Id be looking at more airflow or more radiator. Id try the clutch fan,ask the wrecker if you can try and fit it there....Im sure theyll understand, if it fits by a couple of mm, that will do, thats all I have on my UC with the taxi pack rad. Obviously more air will improve things, if you go electric fans, not sure how much you will need. More radiator?, another way of telling is by measuring the temp of the air 1/3 of the way down between fan and rad, if its close to top hose temp rad is good and doesnt drop away too much when you rev the motor causing more air flow.
Id recommend to anyone serious about cooling to put a temp sensor at the bottom of the radiator in addition to the engine water jacket.......it can tell you a lot in advance.
It does appear that from your description, that even in todays mild melb temp that your system is near the edge and your pump is most likely working okay. Based on that Id be looking at more airflow or more radiator. Id try the clutch fan,ask the wrecker if you can try and fit it there....Im sure theyll understand, if it fits by a couple of mm, that will do, thats all I have on my UC with the taxi pack rad. Obviously more air will improve things, if you go electric fans, not sure how much you will need. More radiator?, another way of telling is by measuring the temp of the air 1/3 of the way down between fan and rad, if its close to top hose temp rad is good and doesnt drop away too much when you rev the motor causing more air flow.
Id recommend to anyone serious about cooling to put a temp sensor at the bottom of the radiator in addition to the engine water jacket.......it can tell you a lot in advance.
#56
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 04:03 PM
I am having similar probs with my LJ on hot days in Sydney (30-40C). Had the radiator reco'd few months back & full system flush. The heaterbox was filled with red mud and old radiator & thermostat housing was just about rusted through (original thermostat as well!!!) so all flushed out and/or replaced with Natrad products.
It seems that i am filling up the radiator once a month (maybe more if its a hot week) with water just to get the temp guage to stay down at normal temps (or what i believe to be normal). The temp seems to really rise quickly if i get stuck at traffic lights for more than 5mins, but will lower once i get some air flow happening.
I am going to do a system flush next week and see if that helps, but if the heater box is filled with crap again will that be affecting the radiator??? (Sorry to hijack thread a little).
Cheers,
Mick
It seems that i am filling up the radiator once a month (maybe more if its a hot week) with water just to get the temp guage to stay down at normal temps (or what i believe to be normal). The temp seems to really rise quickly if i get stuck at traffic lights for more than 5mins, but will lower once i get some air flow happening.
I am going to do a system flush next week and see if that helps, but if the heater box is filled with crap again will that be affecting the radiator??? (Sorry to hijack thread a little).
Cheers,
Mick
#57
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 10:36 PM
Alright guys. If you think the radiator is blocked it might be time to take it to the pros and see what they can tell me. I will get them to run some tests of their own on it, rather than just giving them the car and throwing money at them. I just hope its not gonna cost too much.
Steve
Steve
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 10:39 PM
if you look into the top of the rad thru the cap opening, can you see crud and or scale etc in the tubes visible.
if so, remove the radiator and have it cleaned or replaced if the fins show signs of damage.
condition of fins can be guaged by running your fingernail across them. if they "sing" its ok. if they crumble its fcuked.
if so, remove the radiator and have it cleaned or replaced if the fins show signs of damage.
condition of fins can be guaged by running your fingernail across them. if they "sing" its ok. if they crumble its fcuked.
#59
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 10:59 PM
Incorrect ignition timing and air fuel mixtures can also cause overheating.
http://www.uniquecar...LPG_Autogas.htm
http://www.uniquecar...LPG_Autogas.htm
#60
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 11:08 PM
From what you say, I dont think so. Your drop test says otherwise and so does your initial testing of top and bottom hose temps.......test further. Have you checked for head gasket leaks into the water jacket. I assume that is was dynoed when it was setup?Alright guys. If you think the radiator is blocked it might be time to take it to the pros and see what they can tell me.
My experience with radiator places revealed they arent really into testing to save you money, theyll just say "we'll see if its blocked or not when we've pulled the tanks off".
Ive never seen one with a simple rig that will test how well the rad exchanges heat either.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 04 December 2006 - 11:11 PM.
#61
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 12:29 AM
please refer to my previous post, as having worked in a radiator shop or two myself thats all you do all day so you can tell just by looking at one if its good or not. the only other test you need equiptment for is leak testing.My experience with radiator places revealed they arent really into testing to save you money, theyll just say "we'll see if its blocked or not when we've pulled the tanks off".
Ive never seen one with a simple rig that will test how well the rad exchanges heat either.
#62
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 12:48 AM
I have a recored LJ rad. sitting idle here 
if you want to go the suck it and see method of diagnosis. Also while cleaning up the shed tonight after the Rangie rebuild I found that the Rangie 5 blade steel fan has the same spigot and bolt pattern as Holden - free to good home. And the T.K. tester is a phone call away.
Getting back to fan options I would think thermo's would be my choice over viscous drive in your application especially at Winton. Personally I wouldn't run a viscous fan at revs for any length of time with the small water pump due to it's weight loaded or unloaded and the H/P drag when engaged. Why did the Commodore only come out in 1 model before they changed to a bigger pump bearing?
If your at pick-a-part looking at fans, go to the Holden isle for a viscous coupling fan but if you want a clutch fan look at Mercedes or Peugeot, but I don't know if they will bolt up.
if you want to go the suck it and see method of diagnosis. Also while cleaning up the shed tonight after the Rangie rebuild I found that the Rangie 5 blade steel fan has the same spigot and bolt pattern as Holden - free to good home. And the T.K. tester is a phone call away.Getting back to fan options I would think thermo's would be my choice over viscous drive in your application especially at Winton. Personally I wouldn't run a viscous fan at revs for any length of time with the small water pump due to it's weight loaded or unloaded and the H/P drag when engaged. Why did the Commodore only come out in 1 model before they changed to a bigger pump bearing?
If your at pick-a-part looking at fans, go to the Holden isle for a viscous coupling fan but if you want a clutch fan look at Mercedes or Peugeot, but I don't know if they will bolt up.
Edited by rodomo, 05 December 2006 - 12:48 AM.
#63
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:05 AM
As ALX76 says the heat transfer issue is a visual inspection of the matrix. Not blocked (have you driven through a plauge of locusts lately?) and the condition of the fins (are they obliterated?)as these values are "built in" at manufacture, not rocket science.
Edited by rodomo, 05 December 2006 - 01:07 AM.
#64
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 05:30 AM
Its that lack of testing equipment that gives radiator shops such a bad reputation ......in my opinion. How can they tell if one radiator is going to be better than another, use the customers as guinea pigs? How do you really tell if the fins are in the best contact possible with the tubes, the differences go down to the molecular level and cant be seen by eye. How do you tell what condition the inside of the tubes are in? The tanks have to be removed, work for the shop.........but at the customers expense. A rig which tests the heat exchange would be advantageous in these situations.please refer to my previous post, as having worked in a radiator shop or two myself thats all you do all day so you can tell just by looking at one if its good or not. the only other test you need equiptment for is leak testing.
Perhaps look at this linkas you are still clutching onto the idea that a clutch must involve two solid friction surfaces, or perhaps what you are referring to is that there are both thermatic clutch fans and non thermatic ones?If your at pick-a-part looking at fans, go to the Holden isle for a viscous coupling fan but if you want a clutch fan look at Mercedes or Peugeot, but I don't know if they will bolt up.
Steve, the 5 blade fan sounds a good idea.
The idea of a clutch fan is most of that 99% time it isnt loaded, so its putting less load than a fixed fan on the bearing and engine and at highway speeds the speed of the fan will be around the ~1500rpm mark, negligble power required. My testing of clutch fans reveal this figure varies quite considerably, even in the same brand of clutch. The weight is a consideration, but still small in comparison to the actual force that is put on the bearing in having the fan belt at the correct tension. In keeping 3 clutch fan ucs on the road for the last 10 years, ive replaced one water pump due to a leaky seal. Engine fans basically take hp away from the rear wheels and put it into moving the air, they have little measurable effect on performance if you are actually driving the car forward...........think about what the fan is doing.Personally I wouldn't run a viscous fan at revs for any length of time with the small water pump due to it's weight loaded or unloaded and the H/P drag when engaged.
Im not sure Steve is going racing. Id agree no engine fan would be the go, a thermatic clutch fan would possibly would be engaged as racing usually gets temps up there , however a clutch fan is still 3000rpm limited by centrifugal action of the fluid, whether engaged or not. The amount of power it uses at 3000rpm if engaged will be in the 2-3kW range and not come any where near what a fixed blade fan might require at 5-6000rpm..........reports of 8-12kW.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 05 December 2006 - 05:42 AM.
#65
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:57 AM
i"ve had a look in the top of the radiator and i can't see any crude floating around. When i first cooked it i could see a little bit, but since flushing it i can't see any. I ran that BARS stuff for 200ks and then pulled the radiator out and flushed it with the hose through both top and bottom hose and cap openings, and i know the water came straight out.if you look into the top of the rad thru the cap opening, can you see crud and or scale etc in the tubes visible.
if so, remove the radiator and have it cleaned or replaced if the fins show signs of damage.
condition of fins can be guaged by running your fingernail across them. if they "sing" its ok. if they crumble its fcuked.
Incorrect ignition timing and air fuel mixtures can also cause overheating.
http://www.uniquecar...LPG_Autogas.htm
The car was dyno tuned when the gas was installed, as part of the installation. I did have a problem with the car flat spotting, which when i took it back to them, they stuck a larger jet in the carby. In the end the flat spot problem was caused by the idle speed being to slow, but i would suggest the mixture is right.
I might see if i can take it back to them to get them to double check the air fuel mixture.
Timing wise i am running a commodore electronic dizzy, set about 12 degrees advanced. Could the overheating be caused by the ignition being too much advanced or too much retarded?
I do understand the concept of a clutch/viscous coupling fan, and it does sound like a good idea. I think thermos would be great but i don't really have the cash atm.
The radiator fins are fine, not clogged at all. I have been driving around with a bit of light mesh over the front of the radiator to stop bugs getting sucked in and so far it has worked quite well. I guess i could try removing this and see if it impacts the cooling at all.
Rodomo i am definately interested in the 5 blade fan, and i think i might take you up on that offer.
DA I head up to the Winton fun days often so the car does see a bit of track activity, but i generaly only run maybe 5 or 6 laps at the most and do that a couple of times during the day and then come back in.
I just rung the radiator shop and spoke to them about my problems. I told them they were the ones who rebuild my radiator back at the end of 2004, and that the top and bottom hoses were similar tempreture, and that i had put the bars stuff through, and that i nearly cooked the car a few months ago, and he told me that it sounded like the thermostate was jamed open.
Correct me if i am wrong but what i have just learned is that the thermostate opens and closes all the time to 'hold' water in the radiator to cool it, and that it doesn't just open once the enigine is at operating tempreure. So potentialy my problem is the water is just flowing through the system so fast its not getting time to cool down in the radiator.
Steve
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 12:53 PM
Steve, I think the over the phone answer you got was a little off the mark. If the thermostat is jammed in the fully open position, that wont make it overheat.........it can only make it run cooler than it should in cooler ambient conditions and you would have a motor that in cooler conditions might never get above 50-60C. The thermostat typically will stay in one position if the load on the engine and ambient is constant, its not constantly opening and closing.
The faster the coolant goes through the radiator and engine the less sized radiator and cooling fan you need, though its a law of diminishing returns and making it go faster than say 80L/min in 6cyl is just going to waste energy driving the pump(making it hotter) Slowing it down is what the thermostat does to raise the temperature of the coolant in the engine.
It is quite a common misconception to believe the opposite though........radiator shops included.
Id suggest you take rodomo up on his rad offer too, sucking and seeing isnt too bad an idea if it doesnt cost you anything.
The faster the coolant goes through the radiator and engine the less sized radiator and cooling fan you need, though its a law of diminishing returns and making it go faster than say 80L/min in 6cyl is just going to waste energy driving the pump(making it hotter) Slowing it down is what the thermostat does to raise the temperature of the coolant in the engine.
It is quite a common misconception to believe the opposite though........radiator shops included.
Id suggest you take rodomo up on his rad offer too, sucking and seeing isnt too bad an idea if it doesnt cost you anything.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 05 December 2006 - 12:59 PM.
#67
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:59 PM
I have read your reply DA, I think i understand what you are saying, so in theory if the water is moving too fast, the cooling system will be ineffective?
Ok. Well i just removed the therostate and found it seem to be in perfect working order. It was not jammed open, however when i stuck it in the saucepan it seem to open a lot slower and later than i would expect for a 180F/82C thermostate. I would guess it didn't open till closer to 90 - 95C. The saucepan was alrealy full of bubbles. I don't think it opened completely even when i boiled the pot.
I have now stuck in the 160F/71C thermostate i brought. I then ran the car for nearly 20 minutes in the garage with the front door open (car facing into the garage so i don't gas myself!) For the first few minutes the tempreture climbed slowly till about the 5 minute mark where the guage hit around 195F before the thermostate opened and the tempreture returned to 140 - 150F (I know it opened i felt the hot water start coming through the top hose into the radiator and the radiator get hot suddenly!)
For the rest of the time the tempreture rose to 180F and basicaly sat therefor the remaining 10 minutes, hardly moving at all.
So i guess i could say the problem is fixed... well sorta.
I will take it for a drive shortly and see how we go.
PM heading your way rodomo.
Steve
Ok. Well i just removed the therostate and found it seem to be in perfect working order. It was not jammed open, however when i stuck it in the saucepan it seem to open a lot slower and later than i would expect for a 180F/82C thermostate. I would guess it didn't open till closer to 90 - 95C. The saucepan was alrealy full of bubbles. I don't think it opened completely even when i boiled the pot.
I have now stuck in the 160F/71C thermostate i brought. I then ran the car for nearly 20 minutes in the garage with the front door open (car facing into the garage so i don't gas myself!) For the first few minutes the tempreture climbed slowly till about the 5 minute mark where the guage hit around 195F before the thermostate opened and the tempreture returned to 140 - 150F (I know it opened i felt the hot water start coming through the top hose into the radiator and the radiator get hot suddenly!)
For the rest of the time the tempreture rose to 180F and basicaly sat therefor the remaining 10 minutes, hardly moving at all.
So i guess i could say the problem is fixed... well sorta.
I will take it for a drive shortly and see how we go.
PM heading your way rodomo.
Steve
#68
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:03 PM
Think about what the rad shop has just stated. It IS highly possible that the rad shop is 100% correct. If I am reading this correctl;y and steve's temp sener is in the HEAD not the therm housing then it is possible for the thermostat to be wide open and the engine heating up.
In holden sixes (infact most engines) if the thermostat gets stuck open then the water will circulate around the front of cylinder one and that is about it. If this happens then the temp of the water in the front of the block will be different to the temp at the rear (where the temp sender is). This can get to the stage where the block itself reads boiling (which it is) and yet the radiator is fine. I would suggest that looking at the thermostat would be a great first step. From there do what is needed doing. It also might be wise to look at testing the thermostat as well.
Yes Steve if the Radiator is working efficiently the thermostat will open and close, you should be able to feel this occurring, in the top house. More so when the car is cool than hot.
Cheers
In holden sixes (infact most engines) if the thermostat gets stuck open then the water will circulate around the front of cylinder one and that is about it. If this happens then the temp of the water in the front of the block will be different to the temp at the rear (where the temp sender is). This can get to the stage where the block itself reads boiling (which it is) and yet the radiator is fine. I would suggest that looking at the thermostat would be a great first step. From there do what is needed doing. It also might be wise to look at testing the thermostat as well.
Yes Steve if the Radiator is working efficiently the thermostat will open and close, you should be able to feel this occurring, in the top house. More so when the car is cool than hot.
Cheers
#69
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:09 PM
Yes my temp sender is in the head, above the exhaust and inlet for #5.
I did check the thermostate, it wasn't stuck open but it didn't seem to be opening completely.
Steve
I did check the thermostate, it wasn't stuck open but it didn't seem to be opening completely.
Steve
#70
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 03:14 PM
DA you can see with experience, the type of test equiptment you refer to would sit idle in a shop, maybe useful at uni.Its that lack of testing equipment that gives radiator shops such a bad reputation ......in my opinion. How can they tell if one radiator is going to be better than another, use the customers as guinea pigs? How do you really tell if the fins are in the best contact possible with the tubes, the differences go down to the molecular level and cant be seen by eye. How do you tell what condition the inside of the tubes are in? The tanks have to be removed, work for the shop.........but at the customers expense. A rig which tests the heat exchange would be advantageous in these situations.
i only know of one shop in sydney which had a bad name, hes been out of business for quite some time now.
most rad shops are owned by one bloke, trying to make a quid and are usually willing to help you and give you a good service.
73LJWhiteSL
old thermostate sounds inoperative. should have read the posts closer and suggested it earlier.
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 05:20 PM
First Ive heard of this.......but hey it could be true. The bit that makes no sense to me though is wouldnt this happen when the thermostat is functioning normally and fully opens when the coolant reaches higher than the themostats rating. Or is there some hyper extended postion of the thermostat that can cause this to happen. ,and if the rad was only cooling one cylinder than the bottom hose wouldnt get very hot at all. Would be fairly easy to detect Steve.........the temp at the thermostat cover or top hose or top of rad would be far lower than the water jacket.......... ..............skeptical for the moment.Think about what the rad shop has just stated.� It IS highly possible that the rad shop is 100% correct.� If I am reading this correctl;y and steve's temp sener is in the HEAD not the therm housing then it is possible for the thermostat to be wide open and the engine heating up.
In holden sixes (infact most engines) if the thermostat gets stuck open then the water will circulate around the front of cylinder one and that is about it.
alx76: yes I see your point...........
As you can tell, Ive been burnt by radiator places...........also finding the lack of real knowledge on cooling systems was severely lacking, consequently have had to work out diagnosis for myself.
A decent test rig, just needs a looped hot water supply and moderate fan, pump and temp sensors at inlets and outlets...........wouldnt cost the earth........I suppose its the equivalent of a dyno for radiators, do any radiator shops have them?
Steve, it depends what you mean by ineffective. If the coolant is circulating quickly more heat will be transferred to the air by the radiator. If you want the motor to stay warm, then yes, the coolant moving quickly will be ineffective in that situation.I have read your reply DA, I think i understand what you are saying, so in theory if the water is moving too fast, the cooling system will be ineffective?
If you want the motor to be as cool as possible, the faster the better......but as said b4, there is a point of diminishing returns where exceeding ~80L/min will achieve no further benefits.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 05 December 2006 - 05:35 PM.
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 05:55 PM
Steve, I didnt get to the end or your post, youve got the problem licked.....lets hope so........well done.
Sorry, I thought that you had already replaced it/checked it, reading back.....no, my mistake. Yes Rodomo suggested that the stat can fail after an overheating. All is not lost......weve gone over a lot of other possibilites as well.....may be of use to the next person.
Sorry, I thought that you had already replaced it/checked it, reading back.....no, my mistake. Yes Rodomo suggested that the stat can fail after an overheating. All is not lost......weve gone over a lot of other possibilites as well.....may be of use to the next person.
#73
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 06:45 PM
I would like to see radiator test equipment and and accurate rating of the cooling capacity of a radiator.
When purchasing a radiator it is impossible to compare different designs as they all just claim they are the best or a percentage better than others. I purchased a desert cooler triple flow radiator for my 308 that claimed to be 30% better than the standard radiator. On what basis do they make this claim without accurate test equipment? It was not capable of keeping my 308 cool.
When purchasing a radiator it is impossible to compare different designs as they all just claim they are the best or a percentage better than others. I purchased a desert cooler triple flow radiator for my 308 that claimed to be 30% better than the standard radiator. On what basis do they make this claim without accurate test equipment? It was not capable of keeping my 308 cool.
#74
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 06:52 PM
^ the manufacture of the core supplies the shop with a cataloge that contains this info, it basicly is determined by the amount of tubes (that hold water) and the amount of fins per square inch.
as for desert cooler i to am sceptical of the triple pass flow, why return cooled water to the hot side of the radiator?
as for desert cooler i to am sceptical of the triple pass flow, why return cooled water to the hot side of the radiator?
#75
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Posted 05 December 2006 - 07:09 PM
Think we are coming from the same direction ^ Andy.
30% better?yes its meaningless unless there is some standard on how the figure is arrived at.
Though if its as simple as saying that it works just as well as a standard radiator thats been made 30% wider(assuming the water pump could keep up a reasonable flow) then Id be happy with that, however, suspect its not.
Ive no confidence in the design concept of the triple flow radiator, unless the triple flow is from the back to the front of the rad, with the entry tubes at the rear. Having a triple flow across the radiator doesnt make any sense at all to me(appears a backwards step), low efficiency(cheap) aircon condensors use the same system of only a couple of tubes snaking their way back and forwards across the fins, they have all been replaced by parallel flow(like on a normal radiator) for better performance in todays vehicles for r134 which creates more heat to get rid of.
Alx76: does the info the shops get quote actual performance data, or just construction details of particular cores. ie heat(enerygy value) emitted with X air flow with Y temp difference between core and cooling air etc, containing Z gram of coolant?
30% better?yes its meaningless unless there is some standard on how the figure is arrived at.
Though if its as simple as saying that it works just as well as a standard radiator thats been made 30% wider(assuming the water pump could keep up a reasonable flow) then Id be happy with that, however, suspect its not.
Ive no confidence in the design concept of the triple flow radiator, unless the triple flow is from the back to the front of the rad, with the entry tubes at the rear. Having a triple flow across the radiator doesnt make any sense at all to me(appears a backwards step), low efficiency(cheap) aircon condensors use the same system of only a couple of tubes snaking their way back and forwards across the fins, they have all been replaced by parallel flow(like on a normal radiator) for better performance in todays vehicles for r134 which creates more heat to get rid of.
Alx76: does the info the shops get quote actual performance data, or just construction details of particular cores. ie heat(enerygy value) emitted with X air flow with Y temp difference between core and cooling air etc, containing Z gram of coolant?
Edited by devilsadvocate, 05 December 2006 - 07:22 PM.
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