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Overheating Problem -Blocked Cooling System

Started by _73LJWhiteSL_ , Nov 21 2006 05:01 PM

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#76 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

Back to square one guys.

After my test session i took it for a drive for about 50 minutes. For the first 20 minutes it was perfect, smack on 180F. However after that it started climbing again.

It seemed to stablize around 195 - 200 or so,, and the only time it would come down a bit was after driving without stopping for 5 or so minutes, and even then it wouldn't get back to 180F.

Even comming back tonite at 10:30PM when the tempreture had dropped to around 24C it would stick on 180F but towards the end it was lurking towards 190F even after driving along for a few minutes.

Any other ideas?

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 05 December 2006 - 10:09 PM.

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#77 TerrA LX

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:11 PM

whats wrong with 180 to 190 deg, sounds like optimal running temp to me.
i know some guys who like 200 to 210 deg, dont ask me why but they think at that temp they get a more complete combustion.

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#78 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:14 PM

I would be happy with 180 - 190 if i was running a really hot motor under the bonnet. But its like stock as. Whats the hot 202 i got planned gonna run at if i can't keep the stock 173 under 180F? :fool:

What temps do other peoples cars run at?

Not having a go, just asking the question.

Steve

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#79 TerrA LX

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:25 PM

the fact is i nearly cooked the car back a few months ago, I must have bumped one of the heater hoses loose when replacing the extractors, and anyways the next day when driving the heater hose came almost all the way off, emptied the cooling system, the tempreture guage went off the clock, without me noticing, and the car got so hot it blew the top of the tempreture sender. Ever since then the car has run hot,
Steve

what size radiator you running, and need i remind you of this /\ .

Edited by ALX76, 05 December 2006 - 11:26 PM.

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#80 rodomo

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:15 AM

Steve, temp senders can also suffer from overheating giving inaccurate guage readings. I have read your PM and will call. After reading your post about "its fixed" I thought well good! But about an hour or so later I was out in the shed cleaning up and daydreaming and thought to myself, self? He hasn't driven it yet though. If the guage sender (just so happens there are a couple of them here too) and a rad swap doesn't fix it, it looks like combustion gases getting into the cooling system. You will understand that driving a car under acceleration/load produces more combustion pressure than at idle and may be why it was O.K. initially stationary

Devils I will concede defeat as you have supplied a link not related to the forum that calls a viscous clutch a fan clutch. Having said that I still don't agree with the terminology and believe it to be misleading as the 2 types of fan drives are so physically different in the way they engage and are triggered. Along with the fact that a viscous drive is not a positive drive in the sense of the meaning of the word "clutch". I can honestly say that in 30yrs in this trade I have not heard a viscous fan called a fan clutch until this thread hence my statements. Perhaps the manufactures are calling them fan clutches as a marketing ploy for those that don't know the difference and aren't in the trade?

RODOMO..........
Rides into the sunset waving a white flag.
Gallant in defeat!
But........
Lives to fight another day! :tease:

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#81 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:28 AM

Oh........have put away the champagne. Yes i understand your concern that at 24C the car runs 10C above thermostat temp at .........you are really confident that is the actual temp of the motor? There is no real value in the 70C thermostat, apart from you being able to see that the system is not coping at lower ambients...........but leave it there til you have this problem licked....you know its functioning okay..........you tested it b4 installing it, with a thermometer in a saucepan?
Can really only suggest you go back to looking at the temps of inlet and outlets to try and pinpoint the prob or keep doing swaps with known good components. If the motor is getting hot while cruising around at 24C in the dark, then airflow is not the problem........it may run slightly cooler with a bigger fan, but should be okay with just ram air at 24C, certainly if you removed your engine fan....youd be running even hotter at cruise, so electric fans wouldnt help either.
So now, you list of possibles are:
1. Poor circulation:cause(water pump).....since you have ruled out blockages with the drop test. If the motor is sitting on 190-200F, stat should be wide open and coolant flow high, your bottom hose will almost be as hot to the touch as the top......if not then circ problem......pump......or other mystery blockage.
2. inefficient radiator.........have suggested some ways to test
3. engine producing too much heat, due to some damage from previous overheat(head gasket), tuning, running lpg..........fix cause or install bigger rad

Edited by devilsadvocate, 06 December 2006 - 12:40 AM.

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#82 TerrA LX

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:46 AM

dont forget when testing thermostates that if the water is boiling then its too hot.

is your cap holding pressure.

do you have an overflow system fitted.

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#83 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:20 AM

the fact is i nearly cooked the car back a few months ago, I must have bumped one of the heater hoses loose when replacing the extractors, and anyways the next day when driving the heater hose came almost all the way off, emptied the cooling system, the tempreture guage went off the clock, without me noticing, and the car got so hot it blew the top of the tempreture sender. Ever since then the car has run hot,
Steve
what size radiator you running, and need i remind you of this /\ .

All i know is it is the standard sized radiator for a LJ, so i dunno 2 core maybe?

So you think maybe when i cooked it i have wreaked the radiator?

Steve, temp senders can also suffer from overheating giving inaccurate guage readings. I have read your PM and will call. After reading your post about "its fixed" I thought well good! But about an hour or so later I was out in the shed cleaning up and daydreaming and thought to myself, self? He hasn't driven it yet though. If the guage sender (just so happens there are a couple of them here too) and a rad swap doesn't fix it, it looks like combustion gases getting into the cooling system. You will understand that driving a car under acceleration/load produces more combustion pressure than at idle and may be why it was O.K. initially stationary

I replaced the sender after I nearly cooked the car... i had too, the top was blown off by the heat. Or rather the non metal bit melted and the spring inside pushed the top off. So i doubt it is the sender sending false readings.

By saying gases are leaking into cooling system are you suggesting blown headgasket? And how would i test that?

DA i didn't test the new thermostate in the saucepan before i installed it, but i definately noticed it opening when the car was running. I held onto the top of the thermostate housing and top hose untill it suddenly got really hot, which i assume was the thermostate opening. The tempreture gauge also droped quite noticablely when this occured.

The top hose and bottom hose are still hardly and different tempreture wise, so i would nearly assume the water pump is ok.

ALX76, yes the cap is holding preassure, and yes i have an overflow system fitted.

I might have a go at tuning the car ignition timing wise today. I can't really do much with the fuel/air without taking it to the gas place.

Which would cause a car to overheat, too much advanced or too much retarded on the ignition?

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 06 December 2006 - 10:22 AM.

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#84 _Aquarius - LC_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:36 AM

Hey steve,
This must be giving u the sh#ts by now! ^^ yes incorrect ignition timing can contribute to overheating problems[usually over advanced].However i'm assuming your timing was set when it was dyno'd? So it should be ok, I still think its possible when your engine originally overheated it loosend a heap of scale & crap, wich is now causing an, atleast partial blockage in the radiator.
You've eliminated thermostat, water pump seems fine,the system holds pressure ok, it doesn't seem to be an airflow prob.
I had this exact prob years ago[previouse car],i used every off the shelf radiator cleaning product i could find, over many months,i would flush until water ran clear, removing the bottom hose, the water seemed drop out fast. Eventually i had a radiator specialist do a full tank off clean out.I stood and watched, and was amazed at the crap that came out,almost half the tubes were blocked!!True story! Needless to say,no more cooling issues. It could be your head gasket[hope not].
Something to think about anyway. Just trying to help,good luck!

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#85 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:01 PM

^ is still one of your possibilities, since no one tests radiators for effectiveness, the only way to be able to tell if you have some tubes that are suspect(other than ripping the tanks off) is to measure the temp gradient(change in temp top to bottom) of individual tubes. The tubes may all run water okay, but if they are coated in junk, then heat transfer will be reduced.
There is a product you can put into the coolant which will change colour in the presence of combust products.......never used it. Lime water goes milky in the presence of higher than normal amounts of dissolved co2(combustion product), but dont know how good that will go inside the engine!!

Edited by devilsadvocate, 06 December 2006 - 12:02 PM.

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#86 _Oldn64_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:08 PM

One thing if it is head gasket and leaking enough then you will see bubbles in your radiator. as teh gases escape, obviously you require to keep the cap off for this test, you will also smell it.

Cheers

PS: You should always test the thermostat BEFORE installing it. Even new ones can fail and this does not help particularly with a new engine. (if you ever get to that stage)

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#87 TerrA LX

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:45 PM

check for me if the overflow is collecting water at 180 or closer to 200 where it should.

i dont think you have damaged the radiator by overheating the motor rather the motor itsself.
if in doubt on the radiator, have it recored with a larger one in preperation for your worked motor.
a larger radiator at present will be a bandaid measure with the present motor but if the problem is internal you may be stuck with it.

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#88 _1uzbt1_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:20 PM

In all this testing have you actually taken the rad out and had the tank taken off?This is the only 100% way you can rule out if the thing is blocked or not.If it is problem fixed,if not,get your blocked power flushed put it back in and get a TQ test done for CO2.Most mechanics or dare i say rad shop have one of these.

If your temp goes up and then suddenly drops after t/stat opens you just had a air lock in it,make sure heater taps are turned on when filling but doesnt guarantee full removal.

lc/lj rads are shorter than hr/hq which could fit(did in my uc torry)

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#89 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:31 PM

From what you are saying Aquarius - LC I am begining to think the radiator is clogged again. So i will egerly await the chance to stick rodomo's LJ radiator in to see if that fixes my problem and if so, i will take it to the radiator place.

Oldn64 i haven't checked to see if there are bubles in the cooling system, but after i replaced the thermostate i had the cap off for nearly 10 minutes with it idling in the garage and and i didn't see any bubbles come out from the radiator.

ALX76 i know it is pumping some water out when it gets hot, i often find water has come out the top of the overflow bottle (it has a big crack in it at the top) and leaked out into the engine bay after a long run or a hot day. I know about getting a bigger radiator for a hotter motor, but at the time i couldn't afford paying for a 3 core radiator when i had mine recored.

1uzbt1 i understand what you are saying but my current situation is i have no income probably till early next year sometime, the car is a dialy and i can't afford to just throw money at it. If the problem is the radiator thats fine i'm gonna have to fork out the dough regardless, but i can't justify just throwing money away to test things. I would like to work out what the problem is before i try replacing things.

In the light of tonite, driving home about 40ks, through a varitey of different speed zones and with the outside tempreture around 11C the car was perfect... sat on 150 - 170F never even got to 180F. And when i grabbed the hoses after driving in the driveway there was a noticable differnece between the top and bottom hoses. I would say my radiator is clogged or not cooling the water effectively enough.

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 06 December 2006 - 10:33 PM.

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#90 TerrA LX

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:17 AM

i think you are loosing too much water, check what temps its letting go, drive to say 180 then pull over and have a look, then if not go to 190 for a few minutes and so on, even if you have to run the hose somewhere where you can see it driving, carrying spare water if needed and reconnect if to a full bottle.
the cap plays a part in this and if not sealing correctly on the rad then it will let go premature and make the temp go up.
does the water return when the motor cools?

Edited by ALX76, 07 December 2006 - 12:18 AM.

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#91 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:36 PM

Its probably letting out too much water cause i fill the overflow bottle up too much :fool:

I carry water with me at all times.

I would assume its letting water back in, everytime i have opened the radiator cap the radiator has been full to the brim of water.

After tonites long drive home in the cool air, i really think my radiator is clogged up again.

I am planning to take it in tomorrow hopefully and get it professionaly cleaned.

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will let you know tomorrow if its all good. :spoton:

Steve

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#92 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 09:29 AM

I think i need stronger glasses or something. :tease:

I just pulled the radiator out to take it down the radiator place and looking in the top (with the help of the sunlight) what do i see? Big chunks of stuff jammed into the tubes.

Looks like i have found my problem. When i get the car back together this arvo i will let you guys know if its any better. With the 160F thermostate in it i reckon the things gonna be heaps cool. :spoton:

Steve

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#93 _Aquarius - LC_

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 10:01 AM

Fingers crossed for u steve! Make sure you ask the radiator guy for a filtration sock,[goes in the top hose/inlet],will stop any big particles of crap ending up back in clean radiator. You could buy a proper filter,But i understand your tight budget :rolleyes:

The socks are real cheap and work well enough!

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#94 TerrA LX

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 10:13 AM

pull the welsh plugs on the motor and FLUSH THE BLOCK.

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#95 _1uzbt1_

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 02:24 PM

Glad youve found the problem,fur sure if your not getting your block flushed put a filter in the top hose and empty it weekly till it stays clean.Bobs your aunty!!

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#96 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 10:42 PM

Well guys i have bitten the bullet and brought a 12" thermo fan. I removed the engine fan and have installed the thermo in front of the radiator. I installed the thermo switch as well. :spoton:

So far its behaving itself... bring on the 40 degree heat so i can test it. :tease:

Steve

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#97 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:38 AM

Steve, we've missed what happened.....you were going to get the radiator tubes cleaned out?............did that improve things?

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#98 rodomo

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:46 AM

Well guys i have bitten the bullet and brought a 12" thermo fan. I removed the engine fan and have installed the thermo in front of the radiator. I installed the thermo switch as well.

So far its behaving itself... bring on the 40 degree heat so i can test it.

Steve

Was that before or after Winton?

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#99 arrimar

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 11:26 AM

on december 5th 73LJ states he has flyscreen over the front of the radiator.
theres his airflow problem.

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#100 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 12:31 PM

I did have the radiator flushed, by the radiator shop, however it didn't quite fix my problem. I also have had the temp gauge checked out and its working fine.

Yes i do have mesh over the front of the radiator, mainly to catch bugs and stop them getting into the radiator, but this has been on the car for a couple of years.

At this stage as i said the thermo fan seems to be working fine, it comes on when the gauge gets a little over 180F and stays on untill the temp gauge goes below 180F. I am waiting for a hot day to test this out and see if it works.

Steve