did removeing the cap help with the problem?
308 Loss of power, no idle, wait 5 minutes and OK again?
Started by
_Big T_
, Feb 22 2009 11:35 PM
106 replies to this topic
#51
racean69
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 12:36 PM
#52
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 12:59 PM
Matt - fuel filter has already been changed.
Racen69 - No, didnt make any difference.
Racen69 - No, didnt make any difference.
#53
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 03:01 PM
It could be possible that the fuel cap bits and peices are lodged around the pickup in the tank.
Some More-Ron actually chisseled teh lock out of a locking cap before i owned the monaro and the bits were in the tank with no strainer!!!
Anyway... you could try maybe dropping out the tank and tipping it over and trying to get the bits out....
My money is on a fuel problem... cant say why... its just a gut feeling!
Cheers
Some More-Ron actually chisseled teh lock out of a locking cap before i owned the monaro and the bits were in the tank with no strainer!!!
Anyway... you could try maybe dropping out the tank and tipping it over and trying to get the bits out....
My money is on a fuel problem... cant say why... its just a gut feeling!
Cheers
#54
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 03:03 PM
Is your tank anything special? Might be easier just to get yourself a nice new tank. I agree with Tiny, it really sounds like some form of fuel starvation problem...
My filter always blokes up, and causes my car to get starvation at higher revs... So i change my fuel filter every 1000kms or so
My filter always blokes up, and causes my car to get starvation at higher revs... So i change my fuel filter every 1000kms or so
#55
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 03:22 PM
pull your carb apart ( junk and crap blocking jets when you give it some stick )
or water or shit in your tank, did you just fill up before you had dramas?
cheers julian
or water or shit in your tank, did you just fill up before you had dramas?
cheers julian
#56
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 03:46 PM
Ive got a funny feeling it is shit in the tank. I didnt fill up prior to the problems but the car was sitting for awhile and the last tankfull I put in was premium unleaded. I have read on here somewhere that premuim can go funny if left to sit for too long (sort of goes like jelly or something). I reckon that this, coupled with the chunks missing from the petrol cap and god knows what other crap is in the tank may be a good starting point to investigate.
When I had the car dyno'd a while ago the dude said that I was not getting adequate fuel supply at sustained revs. The fuel pump is a standard 308 pump and the motor is not overly worked. I thought at the time that the fuel pump should be able to supply enough fuel so maybe this was the first indication that something was limiting fuel supply from the pump back i.e the tank.
I will remove the tank, blow out the fuel lines and rebuild the carby if required.
Hopefully the tank isnt too hard to remove......
When I had the car dyno'd a while ago the dude said that I was not getting adequate fuel supply at sustained revs. The fuel pump is a standard 308 pump and the motor is not overly worked. I thought at the time that the fuel pump should be able to supply enough fuel so maybe this was the first indication that something was limiting fuel supply from the pump back i.e the tank.
I will remove the tank, blow out the fuel lines and rebuild the carby if required.
Hopefully the tank isnt too hard to remove......
#57
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 04:45 PM
You need some help here T.
You need to have the fault happen and immediately check for spark.
No spark = spark issue.
If it has spark, it's a fuel issue.
You could end up chasing your tail here.
You need to have the fault happen and immediately check for spark.
No spark = spark issue.
If it has spark, it's a fuel issue.
You could end up chasing your tail here.
#58
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 06:15 PM
When the car comes back to life does it have full power straight away or does it take a while to gather up?
#59
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 06:18 PM
I would also check EVERY fuel hose for restrictions and blockages, especially kinks, if the spark is good.
Edited by ALX76, 31 March 2009 - 06:19 PM.
#60
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:15 PM
Ive got a funny feeling it is shit in the tank. .....
Tony....
STOP SHITTING IN YOUR TANK!
that'll fix it
But no seriously.... What brand of fuel was the last tank - I ask because i had a problem with Shell Optimax *MANY* years ago wehre the fuel dried out in teh carby because the car sat around and the carby became completley blocked up with white powder! (Not anything that was any good to anyone before you ask
) - It took the mechanic 2 days of acid bathing the cab parts to get it off!Anyway.. since then i use nothing up BP ultimate, OR if needed Mobil 8000. And i have had no further problems.
As rodomo said, Before you go spending any more money or time, Try and test the simple stuff first.... - check you have spark (with all the stuff you've changed it should be fine!) - and if not i'd bet it's fuel.
You'll get there mate.. these things are sent to test us! (and belive me... I HAVE been tested in the 10 years i've owned the car!)
#61
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 08:24 PM
When the car comes back to life does it have full power straight away or does it take a while to gather up?
Sorry mate, not sure if I understand so I will go into more detail if that helps.
On Saturday I did the following
1. With the car in the car port on level ground I turned the key and it started with no hesitation from the starter or engine all at (prior to having the coil wired properly I would have to try at least twice before it would start).
2. I feathered the accelerator to keep it idling and warm it up at around 1000-1500rpm (more rpm initially but I decreased this as it got warm).
3. Keeping my foot on the accelerator (if I take it of before it is warm it will stall), I put it into reverse and reversed out of the carport on onto the driveway that has a slight incline ie, the arse end sits higher than the bonnet.
4. I got out and it was idling but it was a rough idle. Enough to keep it running and nothing out of the ordinary.
5. I went to the where the other Torana was parked and moved it into the carport. Took about 2-3 minutes. By the time it was parked the UC had stalled.
6. Turned the key in the UC and it started without hesitation, ran for about 5-10 secs and stalled even though I was giving it gas via the pedal.
7. Tried starting again and all I got was the starter cranking the engine but no start.
8. Gave the throttle linkage a couple of pumps (on the carby) and saw fuel squirt into the primaries. Did this three times and then when I turned the key it started, ran for 5 secs and stalled once again with my foot on the pedal giving it a bit of gas. Removed fuel cap in case it is vacuum.
9. Did 8 above again with the same results.
10. Worth noting that the fuel filter (ryco style that is transparent) is located above the rocker cover on a slight angle (fuel is flowing up an incline). The filter doesnt get "full" so to speak. And if someone says that these filters must be horizontal to function correctly I am going trip out (such a simple and stupid oversight and my account!!).
11. Tried starting without playing with the throttle on the carb and got nothing at all. The engine would turn over via the starter but it wouldnt even fire for a second.
12. Cracked the shits. Pushed the UC back into the carport and went inside to get ready to go to Willowbank. Havnt looked at the UC since.
#62
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Posted 31 March 2009 - 11:25 PM
Big T, I have been thinking about the problem you have been having and reading through the instructions for the bits you have.
It says in the dizzy instructions that using the wrong coil can cause the ignition module to fail. I am wondering if it has failed from having the wrong coil fitted and is playing the game once it cools down. Thats if it still has the module fitted.
As GML-31 said it used to be common with the 5 litre commodore engines. Let them cool down and they go again for a while, then stop again.( same with the V6 commodore crank angle sensors when they played up to)
Has it always had all these ignition components in it or has some of it been recently installed? ( other than the coil). Do you know any part numbers or what model the Dizzy is? and how it is wired to the XR700
If you want a hand to check it out just let me know, I can come and give you a hand.
It says in the dizzy instructions that using the wrong coil can cause the ignition module to fail. I am wondering if it has failed from having the wrong coil fitted and is playing the game once it cools down. Thats if it still has the module fitted.
As GML-31 said it used to be common with the 5 litre commodore engines. Let them cool down and they go again for a while, then stop again.( same with the V6 commodore crank angle sensors when they played up to)
Has it always had all these ignition components in it or has some of it been recently installed? ( other than the coil). Do you know any part numbers or what model the Dizzy is? and how it is wired to the XR700
If you want a hand to check it out just let me know, I can come and give you a hand.
#63
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:05 PM
Sorry mate, not sure if I understand so I will go into more detail if that helps.
On Saturday I did the following
1 thru to 12, was the car cold?
Does your choke work correctly?
Back to my Q.
What I mean is when you are driving and the car stops and then when the bitch is ready to go again, can you drive it like a normal V8 or does it take a while for the engine to get back to normal operation, like does it feel like a slug for a while?
Edited by ALX76, 02 April 2009 - 02:08 PM.
#64
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:29 PM
^Yep, car was cold. Dont have a choke.
Gotcha now. When I start it I can floor it and it will lay rubber no dramas. I did this when I had the shits with it. But all that was before the sparky wired the coil. The day after the coil was done I took it for a 15 minute drive with no worries although now that I think about it, it was a little bit sluggish. The day after that was the Saturday I refered to in 1-12 above.
Peter - When I got the car it had a standard points dissy. I picked up the XR700 and Accel dissy about 8 months ago. The dissy was already set up for the XR700. I also had a Bosch E type coil (transformer type with internal resistance) laying around in the shed. This setup worked fine until about a month ago when the problems from my first post surfaced. Since then I have only changed the coil and had non resistence wire hooked up from the ignition switch to the coil. Without changing anything at all the car did run fine on Friday morning for at least 15 minutes road driving. I did nothing to it and Saturday morning it decided not to run. Very frustrating.
I spoke to friend last night and she had similar problems a while back. It turned out to be the diaphrams in the fuel pump had started to perish and stuff up. She said that when the her car died she could see fuel flowing back from the fuel filter until the filter had emptied, which is that same as what mine is doing as well.
I guess what I need to do is determine whether it is spark or fuel first and then go from there. I dont get much (any) time of an evening so I have to wait until Saturday to play. If I have a multi meter, can I test for spark myself with having to get someone to crank the engine while I stuff around with the leads? If so, what do I hook up to what?
Thanks for the offer Peter !! I appreciate it. I will see what the missus has planned this weekend and go from there.
Gotcha now. When I start it I can floor it and it will lay rubber no dramas. I did this when I had the shits with it. But all that was before the sparky wired the coil. The day after the coil was done I took it for a 15 minute drive with no worries although now that I think about it, it was a little bit sluggish. The day after that was the Saturday I refered to in 1-12 above.
Peter - When I got the car it had a standard points dissy. I picked up the XR700 and Accel dissy about 8 months ago. The dissy was already set up for the XR700. I also had a Bosch E type coil (transformer type with internal resistance) laying around in the shed. This setup worked fine until about a month ago when the problems from my first post surfaced. Since then I have only changed the coil and had non resistence wire hooked up from the ignition switch to the coil. Without changing anything at all the car did run fine on Friday morning for at least 15 minutes road driving. I did nothing to it and Saturday morning it decided not to run. Very frustrating.
I spoke to friend last night and she had similar problems a while back. It turned out to be the diaphrams in the fuel pump had started to perish and stuff up. She said that when the her car died she could see fuel flowing back from the fuel filter until the filter had emptied, which is that same as what mine is doing as well.
I guess what I need to do is determine whether it is spark or fuel first and then go from there. I dont get much (any) time of an evening so I have to wait until Saturday to play. If I have a multi meter, can I test for spark myself with having to get someone to crank the engine while I stuff around with the leads? If so, what do I hook up to what?
Thanks for the offer Peter !! I appreciate it. I will see what the missus has planned this weekend and go from there.
#65
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:41 PM
Does 1 to 12 apply only when the car is cold???
Im thinking that problem is only cause you are not running a choke.
When hot, if the car dies and takes some time to get going again ie sluggish, then it is fuel, if it dies then after some time comes to life again then it is spark.
Im thinking that problem is only cause you are not running a choke.
When hot, if the car dies and takes some time to get going again ie sluggish, then it is fuel, if it dies then after some time comes to life again then it is spark.
#66
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:39 PM
"POS effing sea hunt UC shit box...... burn the effing thing"..... And buy an LX!!! As we all know they are better than UC's!
#67
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:44 PM
Hehehe, sad truth is I already have an LX that I have to move to get the UC out. LX starts and runs first time, every time and I've never had a problem with it. Yet it is the one that gets very little of my attention !!
#68
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:02 PM
Seriously? 
If you have the old ignition set up, I would throw that back in and see what happens.
1 hrs work and no money spent.
If you have the old ignition set up, I would throw that back in and see what happens.
1 hrs work and no money spent.
#69
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:40 PM
^ True, I could give that a go. The old system is just a standard points dissy. When swapping dissy's, if I match up the position of the leads on the cap exactly from one dissy to the other it should all be cool hey? That is, I wont need to find TDC when I swap it over. Also I will need to connect the ballast resistor when Im using a points dissy too hey?
#70
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:57 PM
Not that simple.
Yes, you will need to fit a resistor. $5 for an in-line resistor from Bursons
The rotor button too will have to line up.
That will also depend on the dissy body in relation to the shaft and wether the points are opening or closing.
Mate, you organized what appears to be a terrific drag day, you are also the king of the castle in the QLD Torana club.
Pull rank! Get one of the subordinates to fix it for you!
I will be in Brussy early May for a whole 2 hrs if you get stuck?
Yes, you will need to fit a resistor. $5 for an in-line resistor from Bursons
The rotor button too will have to line up.
That will also depend on the dissy body in relation to the shaft and wether the points are opening or closing.
Mate, you organized what appears to be a terrific drag day, you are also the king of the castle in the QLD Torana club.
Pull rank! Get one of the subordinates to fix it for you!
I will be in Brussy early May for a whole 2 hrs if you get stuck?
Edited by rodomo, 02 April 2009 - 10:58 PM.
#71
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:12 PM
Big T, check the smell of the oil by the dipstick, if it has a strong fuel smell it could point to the fuel pump diaphram, it could also just mean the carby has issues or flooded a few times.I spoke to friend last night and she had similar problems a while back. It turned out to be the diaphrams in the fuel pump had started to perish and stuff up.
I'm still guessing a fuel restriction, it's as though it can't supply enough fuel under load and runs the carby bowls dry, wait 5 minutes to get fuel back up and it's fine for another few hundred metres until it empties the bowls again. Just my thoughts, and to fix a fuel line blockage on a UC you light the end of the fuel line.
#72
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:29 PM
^ Which end of the fuel line? The end near the fuel tank or the end near the carby? This just gets harder by the minute.......
Okay, looks like I got a few things to try for the weekend before I call in some help.
Okay, looks like I got a few things to try for the weekend before I call in some help.
#73
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Posted 03 April 2009 - 07:21 PM
Either is fine, dropping a match in the tank will clear it aswell. 
Good luck mate.
Good luck mate.
#74
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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:18 PM
I guess all walks of life might read the forum so for the record, don't ever light the fuel line or tank. It will clear the blockage... and your garage... and possibly your house.
#75
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Posted 03 April 2009 - 09:02 PM
12. Cracked the shits. Pushed the UC back into the carport and went inside to get ready to go to Willowbank. Havnt looked at the UC since.
its a torana (even if its a UC
) it just didnt wanna go to willowbank.. i bet u walk out there now and look at it and turn the key its will be fine LOL!
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