266 replies to this topic

[orangeLJ]

Last I remember, our friend was banned for being a royal pain in the arse and continually being the source of unrest on the forums.

I've never seen him actively contribute to the social element of the forum, post up anything relating to his or her own vehicles (other than the fact that one was a UC)

I really see no value in having TB or DA as members of the forum, nor do I see why he/she continues to post.

If you went to a bar where you didnt like the music, or the staff, or the other customers, you constantly got in arguments with patrons etc etc, but the Chai Lattes were the perfect blend (taking a wild guess at his drink of choice....)

would you continue to go back???

The "final solution" was enacted years ago because the member asked for it. How about we actually make it final this time?

[REDA9X]

There are a list of rules to comply with when you come to the forum and post, if someone breaks those rules they are warned or banned if it continues.
If we banned and warned everyone for having an opinion (whether we agree with it or not) the forum would close down thrugh lack of interest or members.
Provided it doesn't get personal and threatening, then it can stay. Having said that, we got rid of a couple of people who contributed nothing except shit stirring like Richo.
The member in question here has contributed plenty of helpful posts, even if they are usually to the point of implying they are superior to everyone else.
We will be monitoring though.......

[TerrA LX]

Don't feed the troll.

[8d11p]

How many cases of fraud are the courts going to be listening to? I'm guessing 99% of used car sales involve a lie somewhere in the sale: The seller told me it was always stored in a garage and it wasn't?

torbirdie, that is such a weak argument.
.


In the case of knowingly selling a fake GTR, XU1 or whatever vehicle, a person could be prosecuted, in Victoria at least, under section 81 of the Crimes Act. (Other states would have similar leglislation)

81. Obtaining property by deception

(1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains property belonging to
another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, is
guilty of an indictable offence and liable to level 5 imprisonment (10 years
maximum).

The deception would be the purporting (rebirthed, rebadged etc) of the vehicle to be what it is not.

The dishonesty part quite obvious.

Obtain property belonging to another (the other person money, a swap etc).


It would be no different than forging a famous painting and then selling it stating that it had been painted by that famous painter.

Section 81 is in Section 2 of the Victorian Crimes Act 1958, Theft and Similar or Associated Offences. If you are convicted under these sections you are quite simply a thief.

Such a shame that more of these types of sellers are not reported.

[orangeLJ]

There are a list of rules to comply with when you come to the forum and post, if someone breaks those rules they are warned or banned if it continues.
If we banned and warned everyone for having an opinion (whether we agree with it or not) the forum would close down thrugh lack of interest or members.
Provided it doesn't get personal and threatening, then it can stay. Having said that, we got rid of a couple of people who contributed nothing except shit stirring like Richo.
The member in question here has contributed plenty of helpful posts, even if they are usually to the point of implying they are superior to everyone else.
We will be monitoring though.......

I'm sure we should have a rule about being perma-banned and then coming back again??

I don't think anyone wants him given the boot for having an unpopular opinion, its not so much the content but the presentation that is an issue.

The Forum is meant to foster a positive attitude between members, a good community social spirit, as well as provide a base for sharing knowledge.

I'd concede that TB has some helpful posts in the tech sections (although their wording is often questionable) so lets just lock it in there and take away posting rights for the "social" sections of the forums

[RIM-010]

If John's motive was to make money, wouldn't he use his knowledge and experience to create fraudulent GTR's etc?

[S pack]

If John's motive was to make money, wouldn't he use his knowledge and experience to create fraudulent GTR's etc?

^^^ Agreed, and he wouldn't give a toss about helping people identify the rebirths so they don't get ripped off.

[Ice]

Procriate and sphincter speaka da english ewe Daisy Chain

[rodomo]

A statement, not directed at anyone, that may or may not be related to this topic..................
.
Some people, of obvious learning and knowledge, cannot necessarily be deemed as intelligent.

[S pack]

My initial problem with this thread, the implication that law and order is going to spend a lot of time ( and tax payer money) weeding out sellers so buyers don't have to do due diligence when purchasing,

It will always be up to the purchaser to carry out due diligence but if they don't really know what they are looking at then they can still be easily caught out.
At the end of the day it would be up to the purchaser of a purported genuine original GTR or XU1 that is identified as being a fake to initiate legal action against the vendor, if they so choose.
John is simply offering to help identify the pretenders, rebirths, fakes or whatever you want to call them.
And I wouldn't bet on it that the justice system won't be interested in bringing shonky restorers or vendors to account.

[Potta]

He would if his living relied on it, but not to say this is not done out of the goodness of the heart either.

What happens when no-one has the expertise to indentify all the dodgy cars? all of a sudden no-one is prepared to pay large amounts for classics as they are unsure of their integrity, and hence the obvious consequences for those who own these cars.


And along with that the top end of the resto market on these falls away: spending 30-40 grand on a resto on a car that may not be the real deal is overcapitalising.


My initial problem with this thread, the implication that law and order is going to spend a lot of time ( and tax payer money) weeding out sellers so buyers don't have to do due diligence when purchasing,

The initial post was offering help if you need a car checked out wasn't it?

Thereby preventing the law from having to get involved.

Oh, and just so you know, just because you write something on a forum it does not make it true. Your opinion is not a reflection of fact.

Edited by Potta, 17 January 2013 - 12:49 AM.

[orangeLJ]

I know John isn't usually the best wordsmith around, but you've outdone yourself a couple times in here John! great responses.

[enderwigginau]

He would if his living relied on it, but not to say this is not done out of the goodness of the heart either.

What happens when no-one has the expertise to indentify all the dodgy cars? all of a sudden no-one is prepared to pay large amounts for classics as they are unsure of their integrity, and hence the obvious consequences for those who own these cars.

You know very little about the classic motor vehicle market don't you.......
Where there is no-one to provide expertise for due diligence, the number of fraudulent and misrepresented cars is greater.
Buyers tend to spend less time confirming details and prices are lower due to the greater number of cars available.
Buyers are less worried about confirming the facts where the price is lower and those touting dodgy cars aren't too concerned about lower sale values as they just want someone's hard earned in their pocket.

This was the case many years ago, when cars were changing hands with little to no checks.

My initial problem with this thread, the implication that law and order is going to spend a lot of time ( and tax payer money) weeding out sellers so buyers don't have to do due diligence when purchasing,

Again, you have little knowledge or experience of Police Vehicle Fraud or Organised Crime operations.
Copious amounts of time and money is spent on this.
Operations can run for years.
Prosecutions have been substantial and continue to occur.
I have spent quite a bit of time discussing issues with and assisting officers from Vic and Qld.
One of the recognised experts on Grp C cars in a police officer whom I have learnt much from.

For someone to be a Devils Advocate they need to have a valid argument.
You have none.

Grant..

[u1 71]

what about these cars with restamped engine numbers,